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I Made A Perforation Note About Sc. 461 And Don't Remember Why

 
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Posted 11/02/2025   1:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add littbarski to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
hello,

I come back to sorting Washington Franklins which I did not long time.
From a list of things to consider, I wrote 2c Washington SL perf 11 but added "11-72" the Kiusalas gauge. I know what this means, but I don't remember why I specifically wrote this note only to the Sc. 461, not any other W-F.

I searched a bit and found that the 461 was faked a lot, but with original 11-72, so the 11-72 perf. would not help here?

Or are there different Kiusalas gauges for the 461 and the 11-72 is a rare one?

Just asking, probably I just can ignore it and sort normally for perf 12 and 11.
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Edited by littbarski - 11/02/2025 1:10 pm

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Posted 11/02/2025   1:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The competent way to fake a 461 is to take an imperf 409 and add perforations.
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Posted 11/02/2025   2:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
But they will almost never be 11-72.
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Posted 11/02/2025   3:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add littbarski to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thanks, so there is just one thing like a 461 and it is 11-72?
As said, I wrote some notes and always just wrote perf 11 and so on, only for the 461 I wrote 11-72. Probably because there are many fakes and 11-72 would make it a bit more genuine.

But I think there were some fakes even with 11-72, I don't find the source again in the internet. Probably still valid that most of the fakes were more a stroke perforator and in addition not exactly the 11-72 ?
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Posted 11/02/2025   10:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add clarkphilatelics to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Richard Kiusalas proposed that measuring distance between perforation holes in thousandths of an inch would be more accurate than counting the number of complete perforations that would fit within two centimeters. He measured flat plate perf 11 stamps and found that holes were spaced approximately 0.072 inches apart. Rotary press sheet stamps perforated were perforated with a combination or "L" perforator. The top and bottom perforations were also perf 11 but with a pin spacing of exactly 0.070 inches. Flat plate perf 11 was designated as 11-72 while rotary press perf 11 was designated as 11-70 on the Kiusalas gauge.

Because bars were mounted on the surface of a cylinder or drum, each row was punched at the same time. Rotary press coils were also perforated with drum perforators. Drum perforation spacing was exactly 0.080 inches. Flat plate perf 10 stamps have a pin spacing of approximately 0.079 inches, designated as 10-80 and 10-79 on the Kiusalas gauge.

Prior to Kiusalas distributing his perforation gauges, some fakers believed that perforation spacing was exact between 2 centimeters. Metric perf 12 perforation spacing is not even close to the more exact 12-66 Kiusalas measurement or to genuine perf 12 stamps.

When in doubt, compare stamp perforations with another stamp with known characteristics instead of the less exact method of using a gauge.
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Posted 11/02/2025   10:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
My understanding is that the second number related to the number of pins in the perforating wheel. I have never heard anything about distance spacing.
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Posted 11/02/2025   10:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Always happy to learn something new.
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Posted 11/03/2025   11:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jayce to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks clarkphilatelics, How can we rely on visual comparison between similar stamps? Gauges do not provide the correct measure necessary for true identification?
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Posted 11/04/2025   02:29 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add littbarski to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you very much Clark. So I will just look for 461 as normal perf 11 (11-72), my note was probably about the many fakes.

Jayce: I guess he meant that there are many small differences (as described) so that you either need a specialised gauge or even better just take another stamp with the normally same perforation and compare. Actually I use a specialised gauge, but when looking at many stamps at once I always just take the first stamp where I took the perforation correctly and then compare all other stamps on my desk to this real stamp. It is accurate and fast.
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Edited by littbarski - 11/04/2025 02:30 am
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