Faked Cancelations On A US Scott #467?

I had this expertly reviewed by several top end philatelists/expertizers, and the basic consensus was that the cancelations on this block of 9 are not contemporaneous. That being said I am looking for a realistic price for the block.
Actually there are quite a few major perf separations and other minor issues, but the #467 is sound, in fact the vertical strip of 3 is sound as is the horizontal pair with the 2c to the right.
Your thoughts and expertise are appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

If you get a certificate with "no opinion" that would help.

If you search 467 on Siegel's Power Search, you will find used 467 with undated but presumed contemporary and no opinion (as to being contemporary) cancelled they sell at and just north of $400.

Genuine cancels applied but not contemporary have little value (read less than $400 perhaps by half) if a "faked" cancellation, meaning the device used is NOT a proper postal cancellation you have a fraudulent cancel. Such would be considered to be damaged mint stamps sell for a fraction of the mint block of nine. Here the true value would be determined by someone who will accept a damaged stamp at a price they can afford, knowing the could not own a mint or especially a used block.

That said shoot Siegel a photo and ask them about how they would handle it.

I would be very suspicious of this cancel. Duplex cancels where the left cancel only shows a light killer and no postmark, and a right cancel that only shows a light partial postmark???? VERY doubtful.

Look at PF cert 594063.

A non-contemporaneous cancellation may be late, not fake.

What does the back look like? The front looks to me like a few plausible hand-stamped cancellations when the ink is running out, but to establish authenticity the back would be vital.

But whenever the catalogue price is much higher for used than for unused, the cancellation has to be clear for the full catalogue price to be relevant. In this case, you have a blurred "killer", part of a "CDS" without a date, and a few scattered blobs of ink. Authentic or fake, it isn't very attractive, is it?

(I speak as somebody who knows nothing specifically about USA stamps, but has been troubled by similar questions about "used" Norway and DWI stamps.)

True, but I would be surprised if it was not fake.

"That said shoot Siegel a photo and ask them about how they would handle it."

I will try that option as I am wondering what it is worth and how much I might pay for it if it has a fake cancel.



"but to establish authenticity the back would be vital."

On another note....what is important concerning the back?

This was Siegel's response concerning the item:

"Joel, I would stay away from it. The issue to me is less that the cancel is not contemporary and more that it is very likely fake. You don't want a 467 with a fake cancel and we would not sell one at auction. All the best,"

They wouldn't touch it in their auctions which is easily understood, but it is still a 467. I would think $100?? $50??

I think it would go for over $100 on ebay.

Yours is more attractive than this one

Have to assume that it would go for at least a third of the mint hinged cat value.

Thanks everyone. Appreciate the help.

This cover may be considered to not be contemporary since it is canceled in 1925, four years after the introduction of the 4th. Bureau issues. However the cancelation being somewhat similar to the block of six, that it may, or may not be helpful, in the consideration of the #467 cancel being authentic or forged. There is also the issue of the cancel on the cover being forged?

Perfectly normal. The clerk did not have an undated device at the counter so he used the edge of the 4-bar handstamp to cancel the stamps.

The cancels on the registered cover are consistent with the rules for registration. The stamps were not supposed to get a datestamp on the face or the stamps, but on the seams on the back. This would insure that the postal clerk examined the back of the envelope and stamped across the joints. The cancellations on the face were likely made with the edge of the normal cancelling device holding it so that only the killer part struck the stamps. The consistency of the strikes across all of the stamps and envelope point to their being applied at the same time by the same person.

The only way to check the cancel on the 467 is to directly compare it with known genuine duplex cancels of the period. Images on a pc will not work. Sizes, shapes, and ink density must be compared. The reverse must be observed. Very high magnification must be used, and even UV might prove useful.