Collecting By Engraver

florian, you're absolutely right that certain areas of US Scott 1207
and 1250 were engraved in a pointillist style, both by Charles A. Brooks.

Homer's Breezing Up is one of my favourite modern US stamps.
Great design and excellent printing by the BEP in 1962 using the 3 colour Giori presses.



The pointillist effect is very noticeable in the sky.





The Shakespeare issue of 1964 (see below) also has areas where dots instead of lines were used by the engraver in order to
produce a lighter shading for the background as for instance around the head.

Scott 1250 was printed by the single colour Cottrell rotary press on
tan coloured paper.

In 1959 Belgium issued this semi-postal/charity set
portraying various Burgundian and Hapsburg rulers.
My question is, did Atelier du Timbre, Malines print them with a four colour Giori or a Stiff press?
Or are they basically the same thing?

Whichever press used it was a great job by the engravers and the printer when one considers the were using what appears to be 4 colours on one plate on one pass.

Scott B647 - B652

The engravers : H. Decuper (40c) Jean De Bast (1F & 5F), C. Leclercqz (1.50F) J. Boulanger (2.50F), J. de Vos (3F)








These details show how the colours bleed into the other; the blue
combining with light brown creating dark green.
Perfect example of Giori process printing.

Lithograving - I am sorry, but I cannot answer your questions posed at the foot of page 114. That said, the items of literature for Belgium and Finland make no mention of photogravure in connection with the STIF presses, only intaglio.

Is indirect intaglio not simply a different way of supplying the ink to the plate, much like offset lithography uses a rubber blanket? Note my use of a question mark to highlight my uncertainty.

GLENN MORGAN

Lithograving,

as in my post on the Cotcteau stamp! There is NO photogravure involved! Just two recess, engraved plates and each plate can have up to 3 colours using the Giori-process.

As to offset - there are 3 of them: offset-lithography, offset-recess and offset-typography [called letterset in German philately].

greetings from Krakow, Poland, Rein!

lithograving - Many thanks for those splendid blow-ups of the U.S. and Belgian beauties.

As for the Belgians, I am just wondering whether the light brown ink applied (superposé in French) to the same area as the dark blue ink could possibly create the blackish colour found especially at the bottom of the first five low values. (By the way, you included the 2.50F + 1F value twice and left out the 3F + 1.50 by mistake.)

Similarly, in the 5F + 3F top value, the light blue combined with light brown could create the dark green as you say, while the vermilion combined with light brown could create the orange-brown, etc. That's the effect called "camaieu" (i.e. two inks purposefully applied to the same area so as to create a mix of the two) by French I.T.P. printers.

This could lead back to the classical S.T.I.F. process using three inks: red, light brown and dark blue for the first five low values and vermilion, light brown and light blue for the top value.

Being a mere amateur, I, too, am grappling with the terms used in http://www.google.com/patents/US4516496 offered by canadian but I understand this is the only way to learn about things.

Florian

Thanks for pointing out that I had posted the 2.50F value twice.
It is now corrected.
How could I have forgotten the great Charles V.
I'm using Flickr now more often because I believe the images
are sharper but it's a longer process in downloading which sometimes
causes me to paste the same image twice.

I agree with you about the "camaieu" effect but I wasn't
sure therefore I thought four colours.
Three would make sense since the Belgian presses were probably (?)
the same type as the US BEP which were 3 colour.

Yes the brown mixed with the dark blue could have produced the
dark green panels which is evident on the upper borders especially
the 40c were it was unintentional.
On the other hand looking at the lower dark green panels there is a
transition of brown (border area) into green with no sign at all
of any blue.

Lithograving,

the Post Office Printing House in Mechelen had TWO STIF presses!

http://www.galeoptix.nl/fila/belga/blg_stf4.htm

http://www.galeoptix.nl/fila/belga/blg_stf6.htm

The list of stamps printed with them is in my pages as indicated above!

groetjes, Rein

Thanks Rein for the links, wish I could read Dutch though.

Does the 4 in STIF-4 Giori mean that these particular presses were capable of printing up to 4 colours?

And the STIF-6 in 6 colours?

lithograving laments "wish I could read Dutch though"

Copied from web site and translated in Google Translate; some words are not correct, but the gist of it is easy to read in English; Hope Rein does not mind my using his writings to translate.

FrenchEnglishEstonianThe seals on the STIF-4
The stamps were printed on the STIF-4 were the GROVER perforated to 1967 then the KROLL machine.

stamp size 1:

tandingsmaat dimensions busy period examples

K 11 3/4: 11 1/2 14/16 1958 STIF-4 sheets of 10x5
Giori 1958 TBC

double size 1:

tandingsmaat dimensions busy period examples

K 11 3/4: 11 1/2 28/16 1959-78 STIF-4 sheets of 30, 20 or 25 [Kroll]
Giori 1959 Kgs. Library, 1964 Abbey Ghent, 1966 Cultural, 1978 Brussels Synagogue

stamp size 2:

tandingsmaat dimensions busy period examples

K 11 1/2 16/22 1957-66 STIF-4 sheets of 50
Giori 1957 Sikorsky; 1957 Antarctic expedition; Expo 1958
1961 Mechelen, 1962 Ieper, 1963 Cycling; 1966 Swimming

stamp size 3:

tandingsmaat dimensions busy period examples

K 11 1/2 16/23 1963 STIF-4 sheets of 50
Giori 1963 UPU

prewar formats:

tandingsmaat dimensions busy period examples

K 11 1/2 22/17 1972 24.5x32.5 STIF-4 sheets of 25
Giori 1972 Tourism (1)
K 11 1/2 31/22 1958-59 STIF-4 sheets of 25 (2)
Giori Expo 1958 5F; 1959 Kgs. Library 5F


1.This two stamps have perforation 13 1/4: 14 22/17 as the pre-war. None of the two Belgian catalogs have recognized this. The MICHEL gives good perforation size! Both stamps in Brussels printed on the Belgica [test run in Paris at STIF].

2.The both series in the OCB and the NET stated that the teeth are irregular. Also, this format is all of the 40-ies.

The seals on the STIF-4

date description comments

1957 06-15 Sikorsky 4F
1957 10-10 South Pole expedition 5F [block]
Expo 1958 04-15 30c, 1, 1F50, 2F50, 3, 5F
1959 07-04 Kgs. Library 40c, 1, 1F50, 2F50, 3, 5F
1961 07-01 Archdiocese Mechelen 40c, 3, 6F
1962 12-26 years 1000 Ieper 1F [block]
1963 07-15 Cycling 1, 2, 3, 6F
1963 UPU 05-07 6F
1964 10-12 Abbey Ghent 2, 3F
1966 05-09 Swimming 60c [<->], 1F [|]
1966 08-27 surcharge Cultural 60c, 1, 2, 10F
1972 06-24 Tourism 2F50, 2F50
12-02 1978 Brussels Synagogue 6F

In total some 34 stamps printed on the STIF-4.

Thanks canadian.

I am aware of Google Translate, have used it but don't like it.
I have used babylon rarely which I find a bit better than GT but find that all these free services produce a lot of useless gibberish.

It does not answer the question I put to Rein regarding
the number of colours used.

lithograving - Mine was just an attempt to reconcile the fact that the first five values displayed four colours with the awareness that the classical TD-3 press was capable of the application of only three inks at one pass, in the hope that someone knowledgeable would explain things.

Mixing a dab of watercolour blue of that tint with that of brown I was able to obtain that particular colour of the lower panel (however, see those of the 2.50F + 1F and 3F + 1.50F values). Naturally, if the dark blue and the light brown overlap perfectly, there is no trace of either. Of course, this is only speculation on my part.

Your Flickr blow-ups are great, indeed. Thank you again.

I own two photographs of JIRI ANTONÍN ŠVENGSBÍR (1921-1983) and his work. The photographs bear a rubber stamp on the reverse of the Prague studio of Karel Vlcek ml. While undated, anyone with a catalogue of Czechoslovak stamps will easily be able to date them from the stamp series being engraved.

I thought that I would share them with you.


The text accompanying the photograph reads: "Mr Jiri Svengsbir checking engraved flat plates for different colours ready for print cutter's work."


The text accompanying the photograph reads: "On the working table of Mr Jiri Svengsbir."

GLENN MORGAN

65170 - Glenn, thank you for those two photographs of Jiøí Švengsbír and his 1972 work. Much appreciated.

As I see it:

directe plaatdruck in Dutch = direct plate printing / line engraved recess printing = taille-douce 3 couleurs in French

indirecte plaatdruck in Dutch = indirect plate printing / offset-recess = taille-douce report 3 couleurs in French

The T.D.-6 or the S.T.I.F.-6 printing machines can use up to 3 inks in direct plate printing (producing what is generally known as the veritable recess engraving) plus up to 3 inks in indirect plate printing or offset-recess, the effects of which as manifest in the form of dots, lines, cross-hatching and even large solid-colour areas can best be studied on the 1966 "Pour le MUSÉE POSTAL" souvenir sheet.

Would someone, perhaps AnthonyUK collecting France, be in a position to post an image of its "Impression taille-douce report" section at full resolution on this thread? Thank you very much.

As for the Belgian Tourist Publicity issues, such as S.G. 756 depicting Huy and printed on S.T.I.F.-6 in two colours in direct plate printing plus two colours in indirect plate printing, it seems to differ from the 1968 Tourist Publicity issue S.G. 811 showing Spa which seems to have been printed on S.T.I.F.-3 in 3 colours in direct plate printing only.

Lithograving,





A recess-printing press STIF capable of printing up to 4 colours according to the GIORI process [1 plate, 4 inking devices]. This press was sheet-fed. The first STIF did perform two times as a demonstration model at the World Exposition 1958 in Brussels and in 1972 at the BELGICA International Stamp Exhibition when the tourist stamps - Couvin and Maasseyk - got printed. The STIF 4 was taken out of production in 1983.

In 1962 another STIF press was introduced. This time for 6 colours and reel-fed! Three colours in direct recess and three colours in indirect recess. Two plates in total using the Giori-process for up to 3 colours each plate. For the indirect process the ink was transferred to an intermediate cylinder which applied the printing onto the reel of paper.

The first STIF could not be used for the definitives whereas the second STIF was used practically for definitives only - the Tourist stamps during the 1965-1981 period. Out of production in 1982.

Due to the very long preparation time for plates/cylinders the STIF's were used for relatively few postage stamps.

groetjes, Rein