Collecting By Engraver

Bureau of Funny Hats

Seriously, nice stamps.

would it be useful to have a separate forum just for engraved stamps? Maybe break the topic up by specific engraver or topical? I don't know how feasible it would be ... just seems like a lot of pages to sort through to see if a specific stamp has already been posted or not ...

plus it would be nice to have them sorted out a bit

Members have previously expressed, including me, the wish that one could search individual threads on SCF. I had occasion yesterday (for my own database purposes), to find out whether stamp engraver Jose Moreno Benavente went by the name "Moreno" or "Benavente" in hopes to avoid confusion with other engravers named Moreno.

I googled it and one of the responses was the following:



My reason for showing this is to praise google's searching abilities and the format that they use to present it, namely, that they show the specific pages that relate to "benavente" that just happen to be many pages into the 120 page long Engraver's thread. That's not bad and it sure points out the importance of a a few tidbits of info in relation to a post (e.g., a date, a catalogue number or a name, etc.). It also points out what an important resource this thread has become.

cynical - José Moreno Benavente was born in Spain and Spanish surnames can be a tricky problem. I believe Moreno can be either a given name or a surname. See http://www.babynamespedia.com/meaning/Moreno and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanis...ming_customs as well as nethryk's post of 06/28/2011 on page 29 of the Engraved Stamps - Take 2 thread concerning the Sánchez Toda brothers - José Luis López Sánchez Toda (1901 - 1975) and Alfonso López Sánchez Toda (1914 - ?).

Quote from nethryk's post: Collectors may wish to note that it would be more accurate to say that these two engravers were the Sánchez Toda brothers. In Spain, it is customary in people's surnames to use the father's family name (here, Sánchez) first, followed by the mother's family name (Toda). In an alphabetical listing, their last names should be placed under "S."

Perhaps jorgesurcl might help us.

Besides, have a look at radiola's post of 05/01/2012 on page 4 of the Poets' Corner thread regarding the Spanish-born Chilean engraver José Moreno. Here his mother's family name Benavente would appear to be omitted.

As for Google's services, I cannot but agree. While SCF search on "Spanish surnames nethryk" did not produce any positive results, Google' s help with "Spanish surnames nethryk SCF" was instantaneous, no matter how little computer-literate am I.

florian, you're right!
In Spanish names, after the first name is the surname of the father and then the surname of the mother.

In this way, José (Joseph) is the first name, Moreno is the surname (father) and Benavente is the 2nd. surname (mother)

José Moreno Benavente was born in Spain (Granada) in 1905. He study the engraving techniques being disciple of José Luis López Sánchez-Toda.
Then he went to England and worked at Waterlow & Sons.
The portrait of Bolivar in this Ecuadorian stamp was made by Moreno when he was in W&S.



In the early 1930's Moreno came to Chile to work in Casa de Moneda (Chilean Mint) as engraver (stamps and banknotes).
He stayed here forever and died in 1981.

Some of his works in his first years in Chile :

Two important Headquarters meet in one stamp!

The HQ of the Russian Communists and the HQ of the Polish Roman Catholics - Jasna Góra in Cz#281;stochowa .... Mo#1089;k#1074;a K#1088;em#1083;#1098; - #1062;e#1085;#1089;#1090;o#1093;o#1074;#1098;





How about this as a lovely engraved stamp!?

Who did the engraving??? The Michel catalogue had in printed in typography!? It doesn't look like that at all!

Groetjes, Rein

Florian and Jorgesurcl:

Thanks for that enlightening discussion. I was blissfully unaware of the Spanish mother-father naming protocol. For example, when I came across "Sanchez Toda" I would name it, or as it turns out, "lumped" it by designating it as Toda. I see now that I will have to go with Sanchez-Toda and even have to divide it further by individual brother. That's going to be a project in itself.

jorgesurcl - Thank you very much for your additional information on José Moreno Benavente (1905 - 1981) and his professional relationship with José Luis López Sánchez Toda (1901 - 1975). Most appreciated.

Here in Central Europe, collectors like me in my very young days in the 1940s were first attracted to Chilean stamps by such common specimens of the mid-1930s airmail issue as those depicting a plane low over the wind-swept trees under the Andes (50c), a hydroplane above volcano and lake (5 P), a plane and the rainbow rising from the waves (10 P), a plane and the Southern Cross (20 P), etc., all of them so characteristic of the distant country. I still keep these in my early whole-world collection of used stamps which I had some 20 years later sifted through choosing those of my own preference - some 5,000 - to decide what to mount on Bristol board smooth paper sheets, just one denomination of each design that I liked best.

Were these engraved by José Moreno Benavente as well? Did Talleres de Especies Valoradas / Casa de Moneda employ any other stamp engraver in Senor Morena's era? Which was his last stamp engraving for Chile?

Galeoptix - Rein, the 1913 Russia Jubilee set is said to have been modelled on the 1908 Austria one where the low values (typography) were printed differently from the high values (engraving). Small wonder if, in 1913, Russia followed suit even in the method of printing. If so, I wonder if anyone will come up with the engraver's name. Strange that the Michel catalogue ignores the fact.

The pre-WWI Russia stamp picturing the Kremlin tied down with the Czestochova 24.4.14 CDS is a singular concurrence: formerly, a place in a historical region of the Kingdom of Poland, now, back in the Republic of Poland again. Still, I remember having seen a Jasna Góra Monastery picture postcard franked with a couple of the 14 kop. stamps of the same issue tied down with a 1914 Czestochowa CDS.

Rein, I have another favour to ask you for: would it be possible for you to identify the engraver of the 1969 Netherlands Desiderius Erasmus Roterdamus stamp? Thanks.

Florian,

Sem L. Hartz - the last of the Mohicans in the Netherlands! After him only Inge Madlé is worth mentioning

http://www.madle-design.nl/intaglio-design?i=26

saludos, Rein

Galeoptix - Rein, thank you very much for both pieces of info.

I've consulted my old 1954-1955 Europe Lipsia catalogue, heir to the defunct Senf catalogue. Strangely enough there's no word about the method of printing of the 1913 Russia Romanov Jubilee set, just three designers are mentioned without any clear statement as to which of the three designed which values. Most unusual. Pity.

Best wishes,
Florian

Galeoptix - Rein, I've come across an interesting reference to the Austrian engraver Ferdinand Schirnböck's work on Russia stamps in
http://www.bdph.de/forum/archive/in.../t-5060.html

Gerhard Batz also says in http://www.batz-hausen.de/schirn.htm that Ferdinand Schirnböck
quote: "... arbeitete an Stichen für Briefmarken in Portugal, Russland und der Türkei, ..." = ... worked on engravings of postage stamps for Portugal, Russia and Turkey, ...

Actually, now I see that both the above sites carry exactly the same text whose authorship is that of Gerhard Batz's as duly recognized at the foot of the former.

Could Ferdinand Schirnböck have engraved the high values of the 1913 Russia Romanov Jubilee set? This might have been another link between the 1908 Austria Jubilee set and the 1913 Russia one.

Regards,
Florian

Believing I had a copy of Gandon's 1941 Dahomey Warrior (aka Warrior Woman, Native Woman, etc.) I spent a fruitless few hours this morning rummaging through my material but came up empty-handed. It seems I have copies of other colonial ladies but not this one. I then searched for a few hours this afternoon looking for an image on the internet and also came up empty-handed. Given that it is engraved it seemed that this would be the logical place to ask if some one would put an appropriate copy of this stamp on the thread (if it is not already here). I believe it is 1941 Dahomey Scott#130.

cynical - For an image of Gandon's 1941 Dahomey Warrior try this: http://stampdata.com/stamp.php?id=34855

Florian: thanks for that. What a fantastic face, especially around the eyes. It is my understanding that this design was Gandon's first stamp. Given that it was issued in 1941 and he was born in 1899 what had he been doing in the interval - banknotes?