1869 Series 3c - Unused Og Or Altered Used?

I recently obtained the stamp shown below in an online auction from a well-respected dealer -- it was listed as "Scott #114 Mint, VF-slightly disturbed OG, with hinge." The image is the one that was shown on the auction page. In addition to the above characterization, the page contained the statement "No faults to be expected unless mentioned here" and no faults were mentioned.


When I received the stamp I hastily confirmed the condition of the gum on the reverse and placed it in my album.

This morning I was reading a description of the 1869 series at http://www.theswedishtiger.com/x1869a.htm when it occurred to me that I hadn't checked the stamp for a grill.

I just did that and have been unable to find any indication that the stamp has a grill, but I have detected signs that suggest the stamp has been altered.

Specifically, under high-resolution scan, it looks as if a pen cancel has been bleached out and that the stamp has been regummed (the feint pencil mark on the reverse appears to be underneath the gum).

Am I mistaken in believing that this is not an unused stamp with OG?

Something is fishy, tomiseksj.

There's definitely a faint line across top-left of the stamp. Of course, if it were a 125, as the pencil mark suggests, only a moron would have removed the cancellation...


[Scott 2007]

Someone here (smarter than I) will give you better insight..

KirkS

That sucks hope you can return it. A nice looking stamp though. Had the same thing happen to me with this #1, advertised as re-gummed but PF found evidence of cancel. I kept it because it did not cost very much, basically same as used very fine and is a nice copy of 1b brown orange, auction said it was 1 red brown unused re-gummed.

If the stamp was re-gummed you should be able to see signs a the gum in the perforation. Since stamps were gummed prior to perforation there should be no gum inside of the perforation cuts. This should be easy to see with a magnification glass.

Cleaning or even bleaching a stamp always causes me concerns. It makes me think what were they trying to get rid of.

There is some kind of mark on the stamp that is for sure. It may be a cancel mark.

I sent the second image and my concerns to the dealer and told him I wanted to return the item -- haven't yet heard back from him.

Now that I'm at the point where all of the "inexpensive" holes in my collection have been filled, I'm really going to have to get smart on detecting alterations and fakes. I think it is also time for me to buy a UV light source.

In the interim, I'm glad I have access to the collective wisdom of the SCF!

These links may help you in the future.

http://www.sheryll.net/Forgeries/Al...lteredUS.htm

http://www.slingshotvenus.com/stamps/fake508c.html

Thanks, mkfarm, I've added them to my reference favorites.

time to expand our collection so you have more cheap-o to collect... :)

Steve, I was bidding on that stamp as well..
Gary will definitely take them back.
It has been canceled, and for some reason someone washed it off.
unless someone made a colossal mistake... it is a modified 114. The grill has been ironed off along with the washing.

Bob and Dave sometimes don't examine the stamps they list that they sell on consignment.. I believe yours was a consignment deal.

Examine it carefully for any signs of a grill,if it is a 125, even modified it would be worth thousands. I have studied them in great detail lately as I have one off to APS to check.

Daryl,

I've looked at it with a 30X scope and also examined scans taken at 4800dpi resolution and I still haven't been able to find one. I have a used 113 that has a very faint grill so I imagine that pressing a similar grill out wouldn't be too hard to accomplish.

I've already got $74 invested in this stamp so my dilemma is do I sink another $27 into it to get PSE authentication that I probably have a $20 stamp or do I cut my losses and try to get my money back.

If this were a different thread I'd say that you may be a stamp collector if your gut tells you that you've spent too much for a stamp but you want to keep it anyway (you've got to admit that it is a pretty stamp).

The one upside I can see to getting a certificate is that I could probably turn around and sell the stamp for way more than it is really worth!

Or I could just put it up for sale as a used 114 but post an image of the reverse with the #125 clearly showing and hope some buyer thinks he's about to hit paydirt and is willing to pay an outrageous amount to win the stamp.

My guess is that everyone at the seller is enjoying the long holiday weekend so I've got a few days to mull it over and keep trying to find that grill.

Steve

Steve,

I would return it if I were you, it's a used copy with a removed or lightened cancel.

Also, now that my memory comes back, I don't think that you can get a cert on a no-grill '69 from the PF or PSE unless it's a stamp with OG.

Bill

Billw,
I have a used one out at APS as we speak.

I think someone tried to originally pass it off as a 125, but then got caught and decided to clean it and pass it off as a mint 114, this makes more sense to me.. but what bothers me is that whomever cleaned it, didn't remove the writing on the backside of the stamp.

either way, I think I would return it to GP. They will take it back.

Steve, sent you an email about this.

Bill, I put it in the mail this afternoon. Steve

Steve,

Good man! :)

bill were you referring to a mint version only?