Should I Remove Stamp From Cover To Check Watermark?

I have a possible Scott 499 (2 CENTS Washington) on cover. The only difference between 499 and 461 is the watermark.

Since the stamp is on a cover I can either leave it there and not know, or, I can safely remove it from the cover, check the water mark, and then place it back on the cover with a hinge.

Any thoughts?

I'd say leave it there.

You didn't mention what kind of cover your stamp is on and/or if there is a readable date cancel. As you probably know, the 461 was issued June 17, 1915 but the 499 was issued March 1917. So if the cover is dated before March 1917, you likely have the older (more valuable) stamp; if the cancel is after March 1917, you likely would have a 499. No guarantees of course, but just a point to narrow down the odds.

In either case, I would have great reservation about removing a stamp from a cover that old simply to check a watermark.

461's come in a distictive shade - which helps the identification. It was also in use a lot earlier than the 499's - if your cancel is from 1915 or 1916 the 461 is more likely. If from 1917+ MUCH less likely.

I'll double-check the date. thanks!

Show us a scan if possible
David

If you absolutely have to know, replacing it with a hinge would be the way to do it.

Here are the possible types, grouped together accordingly. The more expensive types are indicated by **.

Coils:
454 - red, Jul. 7, 1915, 19.5 - 20mm x 22mm, Perf. 10 Vertically, type I, Rotary Press, Wmk. 190

491** - carmine, Jan. 2, 1917, 19.5 - 20mm x 22mm, Perf. 10 Vertically, type II, Rotary Press, Unwmk.

Regular:
461** - pale car. red, Jul. 14, 1915, Perf. 11, type I, Flat Plate, Wmk. 190

499 - rose, Mar. 27, 1917, Perf. 11, type I, Flat Plate, Unwmk.

Here are the possibles of what I have, all on cover, with the postmarks:

454/491, Apr. 30, 1919, Dubuque, Iowa - I am 100% certain that it is carmine and not red, however, the only sure way to know is checking for a watermark.

461/499, from 1917 - 1922 - I am not sure about pale car. red vs rose for this issue. The only sure way to know is checking for a watermark. I have 9 covers for this one in the date ranges mentioned.

Don't remove it from cover!

I am sure there are one or two stamps that would be worth such a drastic
move to check up on, but I think 99 out of 100 stamps fall into the "worth
more on cover no matter what" catagory. Putting it back, especially with
a hinge doesn't seem too 'kosher' to me. I sure wouldn't be interested in
a stamp/cover given that treatment. I would try to ID the stamp some other,
less intrusive/destructive way, such as dates and colors.

Oh yeah.... WE WANT PICS! ;)

Hi! scott
I have really enjoyed reading this thread and it is very good info you have received.
It is the little bits of info about a stamp from the past that helps perfectly in your situation.
It is very much the same way, as has been mentioned, for me to tell one stamp from another in my Australian 1914 to 1938 KGVs without devaluing the stamp as it is, in its found condition.

SCF is very special for many reasons but this thread shows just how important it is to share about stamps on our SCF! John

I'm with ratio411,
leave well alone.
Will not a "Morley Bright" wmk detector work?

Scott_05
The 461 was printed from plates 7259, 7561, 7264 and 7265. A total of 1900 panes (190,000 stamps) were printed. They were all sent to the main post office in Washington. As was common, information of the release was leaked and several dealer purchased sheets. 43 plate blocks are known of the 3800 possible and most were released by a Washington stamp dealer. Most contemporary used would have a Washington postmark and a date of July 16, 1915 to Aug 1, 1915. Official records show delivery on July 16.
As for the 454/491 if the postmark is after June, 1917 it would almost certainly be 491. The coils were typically commercial usage and normally moved pretty fast due to high volume mailings.

Thanks everyone!

I'll leave them be for now. I have sent the cover with what I think is a 491 coil to APS for certification/expertising.