Numerical Stamp Grading

Will this be the death of people collecting US Modern post 1900 Stamps ?
I'm interested to see what everyone's take on this is, as I am getting sick and tired of seeing clown dealers trying to get $300.00 for a centered National Park issue with a catalog value of .20¢. I understand the need for pre 1900 Stamps with high catalog values, but for anything after the turn of the century ? Give me a break. I'm about to stop collecting the US altogether as this only benefits dealers and I guarantee that you will never see a dealer pay anywhere near what they are trying to sell them for.

Example:



Right now some Squid is selling this (Or trying to) on ebay for $8,575.00. It has a catalog value of $220.00. They graded it at a 98 so they feel they can inflate the catalog value X 40 ? After what is the catalog value based on ? An off centered missing perf piece ?

Discuss please.

That is insane. Write to the dealer and tell him you have a similar "98" and ask how much he will pay?

I guess dealers figure if it works for coins it should also work
with stamps.

I don't think so.

I agree totally that those postings are completely ridiculous. A stamp really only has two meaningful values. What a seller is willing to part with it for and what a buyer is willing to pay. If they come together, so be it, and there is a sale. If not.... A catalogue of any description is only an arbitrator in the process, to be observed or ignored as you wish.

As far as harming the hobby, nitwits like that are advertising to those far beyond the entry level collector (far beyond me, as well, come to that) but there is another breed that worries me far more. If you go to the world collections on ebay, you will find literally hundreds of single stamp ads for common 20 cent material, usually listed for about $1.00 or less. Postage generally adds $2 or $3. These are priced low enough that an inexperienced collector with a space to fill in an album and no access to an expensive set of Scott's or the equivalent is apt to buy on the word of the seller. This is the person who is going to sooner or later find out what is being done to them and is going to quit and never develop as a collector.

Part of that is maybe the fault, if that is the right word, of ebay and a current policy of allowing free listings up to 100 in a month, I think it is. Thus if a seller wishes to establish several email identities, they can list virtually thousands of these things at no cost and accept the 10s of sales as pure profit. I have noticed that listings in this ebay category have gone from 4-5000 to 15-16,000 in the past year or two and most of these are of the "Have I Got A Deal For You!" variety.

Now, that feels better! A good rant every so often is good for the soul.

It should be "supply and demand"; but unfortunately there are some unscrupulous sellers out there that will take advantage of those not knowledgeable. (That's what SCF helps us to sort out!)

I just checked e-bay and can't say that I saw the specific item you mention, but I did see at least 50 separate posts for similar stamps at or well below catalog prices of all grades, including blocks and plate blocks, so don't let this one incident deter you from collecting stamps. I'd simply note the name of the seller only as a future reference to know who NOT to buy from in the future if that is typical of his sales practices.

You have taken an example of a stamp, but how many other things are up for sale (not only on e-bay, but even in your local store or business)...at a seemingly inflated price? If you go to a car dealer and they want to sell you a car when you know you can get the same unit for hundreds (or thousands) less at their competitor, do you buy the first thing you see? If you go into a retail store and buy an item for $10 that is going on sale for $5 next week, do you buy it now or wait? Anyone can ask a high price, but it's up to the informed consumer to judge its worth. Like anything else, it's buyer beware.

I remember buying buying XF and S (90-98) for 100-150% of cat value all the time. The prices have gotten insane. But what really gripes me is that the same sellers that list the outragously infalted values for higher graded stamps forget to list a reduced value for the Ave and F stamps.

I don't think these are going to be the death of collecting U.S. stamps. (The post office is doing just fine on that front all by itself, thank you very much.) I think they were supposed to be the birth of true, reliable stamp investing and I don't think it has played out that way. At all.

They are so easy to ignore, and they aren't driving up the market, as far as I can tell, so they end up being a curiosity. Granted, a few people might be turned off of stamps when the market falls the rest of the way to the floor, but I'm not sure those persons would have been collectors of "regular" stamps in the first place.

I don't intend to cast aspersions on those who can afford it and who want third-party validation of their stamp choices...I just don't see it, myself.

[edit: My assumption is that the pool of 20th century stamps isn't being seriously diminished by the rush-to-grade of a few years back...my assumption might not be correct.]

Cjd, I agree. Many dealers are moving away from these items because the investment is high and the market is flat (at best). High graded examples of the overrun nations are flooding the market while EF-S stamps are extremely common. I personally can't see paying big buck to have a minimum value stamp graded.

It has not worked for coins. There are two coin grading services that are considered desirable (and even then one is more desirable than the other). Premiums for coins are based on the grade, who certified, and when the coin was certified (standards have changed over time). Also, the grading of a stamp is more complex, and I do not think a number grade is that helpful.

There are undoubtedly collectors who are willing to pay what many would consider outrageous premiums for stamps approaching "perfection." What I find most curious is that he has opted to price the stamp at almost twice the Scott and PSE valuations for a MNH Scott 325 graded 98 yet provides no justification for doing so and doesn't even show the PSE certificate in the listing. I suspect this item won't sell at his asking price.

I use ebay a lot because it's a decent barometer for what a Stamp is worth in the market place. But the more I see thesecrooks the more it makes my blood boil. How are new collectors suppose to get in the game ? The 1930's commemoratives were a good starting point for new collectors who wanted to build a collection but not spend a fortune and now they are grading those .5¢ stamps. I see they are now slabbing Prexies.....

Sorry, I forgot to post a link to the auction I referred to in the OP

http://cgi.ebay.com/325-SUPERB-OG-N...em2c55072a72

You've brought up a subject I was thinking of myself. This grading craze is a real pain if you're trying to collect US. I'm only collecting pre 1940, so grading of stamps is a real hindrance. For someone who is very particular and wants well centred stamps they're becoming hard to find. Not impossible of course, but difficult. Typically I'll scan down the list of stamps, spot a well centred one, look at the title, and sure enough "graded PSE...", so on I go, crap, crap, crap, oh there's a well centred one, look at the title, "graded PSE..." and on and on. I must admit that I have broken down and bought a graded stamp a couple of times when I haven't been able to find a well centred example after months of searching.

I really don't get what sort of basis a numerical grade by one company is to value stamps by. They're basically trying to indicate that a stamp is rare and therefore valuable because there are only x number graded at that level... but that doesn't mean that there aren't a thousand out there that just haven't been sent into them for grading... so how can you justify spending exorbitant amounts on a stamp just because it's graded??

Take the below example (forgetting colour as that's a product of scanning differences.)



This is Scott 836, a common stamp from 1938, normal Scott CV of 30¢.

The left stamp is PSE graded 98. It's an image from Bidstart and is for sale at $125. SMQ is apparently $100. You can get grade 95 for around $60. The right stamp is mine - I paid 21¢ for it. How can you tell me that the left stamp is worth 400 times more than the right one?? To the naked eye they look pretty much the same. I'm as happy with my copy as I would be with the top one.

So although you can usually get by obtaining well centred stamps without paying the ridiculous prices, it does make me angry seeing so many stamps that I want so high priced. And a lot of sellers will use a term like "will grade well" or "dealer graded" and so still charge much more than CV.

Balf

SMQ, here is another subject that makes my blood boil. Is this publication owned by Steve Malack Stamps ? Where do they get their ridiculous numbers from ?
I sent one of these dealers an email the other day, he listed a PSE 98 National Parks issue (Yosemite) for $275.00, I have one that I bought in the whole set for $3.50 that was equally centered and perforations were just as good, I told him I'd sell it to him for $75.00 leaving him room to make $200.00 , and guess what ?
He never answered me....big surprise. They are well aware that this is only a tool for sellers to absolutely take advantage of ebay bunnies and they are running with it. I have no respect at all for these thieves and hopefully in the end, they get what's coming to them.

Being that this goofy "high grade" status also carries over to used, how about a slabbed, PSE cert 98 US Scott 331 with a cv of .40 cents being offered at $49.99. I don't feel a true collector would be so misinformed as to actually buy at that price.I don't really care what Joe Shmuck ASDA,APS, BBC,BLA,BLA dealer offers on ebay, cause I aint buying. This actually may have a positive effect, this should keep prices of, non superb, nonjumbo, nonmonster, unperfectly centered within 1/10000 of an inch, nonjem stamps within reach of "collectors". There will always be some nutjobs that will overpay for stuff.These will be the ones that weed themselves out when the realization sets in that they will never recover the purchase price of these ultra rare common investment grade items.

I agree Fred but there is another aspect to look at. Sure, no knowledgeable collector will pay $200 for a Prexie, but how are you going to lure new collectors ?
In order for Stamp collecting values to actually increase, there needs to be a bigger demand, and right now the supply outweighs the demand which is why very few Stamps in the real world come close to realizing catalog value. In order for Stamp values to increase (And I don't mean what these clowns are doing) there needs to be more demand than supply.

It's silly and hopefully a fad that will disappear. However, what percentage of dealers really do this? Are well established, long-time dealers do this or just the flash in the pan types? Like the 24kt gold stamps, you can "vote" with your dollars and just ignore it. Educate the newer collectors like we do here and the demand for slabbed overpriced stamps will hopefully be non-existant and the practice will cease to exist.

As for demand, we need to get into the eye of the public, get the postal services to support us, make connections, educate people of all ages and advertise, advertise, advertise. I don't know how many stamp shows never even bother to put an ad in the local paper or just put a sign out front that's smaller than a yard sale sign. We can do better.