Need Help With A 2 Cent Washington Identification

Hello All!
As I am slowly browsing this lot of envelopes, I've been finding some odd and interesting envelops/stamps/marks.

This envelope has me baffled since I can't find anything relating to the cancel mark. The envelope is 1/2inch shorter than a #10 and 1/4inch more narrow; blue window; looks like someone tried to open the sealed flap; and it has stains and light areas. The imprinted address is: Post Office Department Third Assistant Postmaster General Division of Stamps Philatelic Agency Washington 25, D. C. OFFICIAL BUSINESS. Previous owner had this marked as U432.

The cancel mark is from Washington DC, JAN 31, 1944 6-PM, there is a penalty statement over the stamp. I've attached two pictures - hopefully - one of the entire envelope and one of the corner with the stamp and cancel.

If anyone can help me ID this more thoroughly, I'd surely appreciate the redirection.

Thank you!

I can help with the cancel. it is an International Postal Supply Co. Model D30.

U432 could be right, as that variety is on bluish paper. Unfortunately, even the bluish paper variety is only listed at minimum catalog value.

I am no expert in this issue (which was very common for its day) but I do know there are a number of different dies and paper color varieties known to exist. Unfortunately, the detail in the various dies are so minor that you need a magnified close up scan of parts of the image to determine the subtle differences.

Also know that many of these postal stationery items were custom produced on various size envelopes to meet the demands of specific commercial needs.

I cannot speak for the "Penalty Mail" overprint, but from what I see it looks to be a rubber stamp overprint that was probably applied to all of the envelopes in use at this particular Post Office purely as an anti-theft measure.

Perhaps someone else can give you more insight.

Hi Russ!
Thanks! I just went to http://www.machinecancel.org/forum/..._GP_2010.pdf and there is some information to go through to figure the different cancellation marks there. Have my homework cut out for me. Interests piqued! I see that the "D" annotates the six wavy lines, what does the "30" denote? Can't see anything yet on that. Thanks!

Hi WT!
Thank you for that information. Can see what you mean by the "rubber stamp" now - apparently I need a larger magnifier. Thank you again!

leeswytz, the "D" six line from the link you posted is actual from a different type of machine. The machine reference in that article was the Universal cancel machine electronic Model D. The cancel on your cover was from the International Postal Supply Co. and was a Model D30 machine (the Model D30 along with the Model D42 were 2 of he most popular International machines.) The cancel itself is a wavy 7 bar killer which was a very common cancel die for International.

As a note to the penalty overprint, these overprints were sometimes allied by printing, stamping and even with a special die in a canceling machine.

Modern day "business" sized envelopes are produced in two sizes (UPSS 21 & 23), which may be referred to as "size 10" (a USPS term, I believe), if one is not rigorous in identifying the size (the smaller is #9 in USPS terms). If you think of a UPSS size 21 as a "#10", then your measurements (1/2" and 1/4") would land you pretty close to a UPSS #20. The scan looks like it may be a size 20. If you post the exact measurements, we can give you a more precise answer. Better yet, add a description of the watermark and we can give you the catalog number and value, which ranges from $.80 to $5.00 in the just-published UPSS 20th/21st Century Catalog.

Hello Thomas,
Watermark is 26; 22.5cm x 9.95cm - plastic school ruler so probably 22.5cm x 10cm - apparently it is a UPSS size 21

Have the book you suggested on my wish list, so maybe will get one soon.

Thanks

If it is a size 21 and W26, then the UPSS number is 2234-26. Cats $.80 used.

But, of course, it's a penalty overprint, which brings up a whole 'nuther catalog :-)

And that catalog is not one that gets updated very often. The last one does not have your envelope listed. So, it sure would be nice if you could send me a scan (300 DPI or better) of the front so I could see that it gets to the guys who care about that stuff. Are you using a photo hosting site for your images here?

Thomas,

No hosting - just digital pictures with my camera and upload with my posts. I've taken some more pictures and cropped some so maybe they can help.

I don't have access to the forum emails so I can't send an email with what I have and I have no way to scan the envelope. I can post a few pictures in this forum if necessary.

Please advise as you can.

Thanks,
Lee

I also do not have access to the forum email. Don't know why. I'm not very familiar with this board, so Mordac wins.

Hang onto that envelope if you can. We'll run into each other somewhere down the line. We'll capture the essentials then.

Once you get your 50 posts the email will begin to function for you.

Thomas - Dropbox is up and have a few envelopes there.

How do access your Dropbox folder?

need your email address to add so you can access the folder. then I'll send you a link to open it.

x@noibn.com