Important To Collectors Of Australian Stamps

I hope the site administrators will allow this link to another forum, but the subject is very imprtant to all collectors of predecimal Australian stamps and to collectors that love philately as a whole:

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopi...f=13&t=28978

If the link is removed ...just Google Blue Owl Stamps

Alex

Alex
I have been following that subject and it's a sad day when you can't trust a so called respected dealer.

Alex, thanks for posting. I know very little about re-perfed stamps and really don't know what to look for. If someone could give a Re-perf for Dummies lesson on what to check for I'd appreciate it.

Much of what needs to be absorbed will be on the link, I trust Admin here will leave the link in place.

It creates a simple warning about the use of online auctions for the purchase of apparently scarce material:

1. It costs pennies to have a stamp regummed. Take an old stamp, remove the gum and the hinge and paper adherence. Send it to the regummers, get back an apparently pristine, never hinged stamp. These are detectable with some education (the way the gum will cover the edge of the stamp perforations, for example).
2. Stamps can be reperforated so that just a little is taken out of existing perforations to even them up. They look too crisp. Stamps that are oversized can be trimmed to even up the margins, removing damage and creating pristine centreing).
3. The risk in #2 also applies to perfins (the Australian perf OS issues are discussed in the link).

How to mitigate these risks?

1. Don't bother trying to find never hinged material or scarce perfins from an untested source. Common sense will tell you that when a dealer in Bristol UK offers a large amount of mint never hinged material, the source has to be questioned. If I was minded to collect never hinged material, buy marginal copies hinged in the margin or multiples where not all stamps are hinged. If you find a single, no margin copy of a stamp from 1888, you are taking an enormous risk IMHO. I collect used stamps, I don't have this problem.
2. If you are going to spend large amounts of money, be certain that the sale comes with a guarantee of being genuine. It doesn't necessarily have to be a certificate, just an undertaking from the seller guarantees that the stamp is correctly described. I'll give you a handy hint, though. If you can't get a certificate (to prove the stamp never hinged and not tampered with in any way [and you can't] or that an OS perfin is genuine [and you can't] reconsider what you collect). Now any guarantee is worthless in most cases. In 20 years' time you dicover your 1908 20s postage due you paid $20,000 for (this is just a made up example) has a false cancel and you want your money back. You track down the dealer, he has retired but helpfully advises, "no, I didn't guarantee the stamp, the company that owned the business did, I was just an employee. I can't help, the company was liquidated when I retired". The fact that his wife owned the business is nether here nor there.

Collect realistically (yes, that includes you 95 & 98 point collectors who pay 100s of times catalogue values for common stamps), spend serious money carefully and keep learning and reseacrhing your favoured topic. In the end it is only your knowledge that will protect you from being cheated, anything else is just someone else's opinion.


The second issue are the actions of the governing body. I could sell online with as many IDs as I have postal addresses and card numbers (I will state that I only have one ID on each individual auction site I use). I think in this circumstance, the governing body is correct to retain the membership of the trader. By staying affiliated, he is making a commitment to behave. Kick him out and he could go anywhere and do anything. I understand that many people will refuse to deal with him, the breach of trust is something unusual in philately, we all enjoy the fact that we can assume a position of trust in our dealings with a great deal of confidence.

There is no transparency in what the governing body has done, but when is there? Read a court decsion in the paper and you will be astounded (more often than not) at how lenient the sentence is. You weren't in court, you can't weigh up all the evidence. You can't know how a decision was arrived at, you either choose to accept the process or not.

I'm not sure why I've avoided naming names, but I leave it as it is.

Alex, thanks for pointing out this thread at the "other" forum.

Even though I don't collect Australia nor do I have hardly any knowledge about re-perfs or shill bids for that matter,
I found the 5 pages a fascinating read.
Reminds me of the phrase "Knowledge is Power" (can't quite
remember who said that )
It also shows the power of the internet in getting quick
action. The only problem I have with this type of exposure is ;
What happens when the accusations are wrong and an innocent
party has been tarred & feathered ?

As far as linking to another forum I can't see why the Administrator
would object.
Most people here I'm sure know that there are other good stamp forums out there and
many probably are members on those already.


I also look in on other forums but only post here because I
find SCF friendly and comfy.

No problem outting the guy as he was definatly both creating fakes but worse the schill bidding by his wife no less. Not like were talking a $50 stamp being bid up to $60 its literally $100's and 100's of dollars. My biggest problem with the whole thing is in the 5 pages there must be mentioned 20 times, an accusation against ebay buyers "bunnies" more or less calling all of them fools or they deserve what they get rants and anyone who isn't blind could see this or that. How in anyway does that help educate people . I don't have a "stamp shop" for literally 100's of miles so I am a proud ebat bunny but am also smart enough not to spend 1000's on anything .
In this case the guys account should have been shut down, but ebay makes good money off his sales so a simple don't do that again gets issued . Another reason to be cautious at all times --Bottom line is the more you educate yourself the safer you are and if it takes a few tough lessons along the way you live and learn.

@ Lithograving




In this case this does not apply as the person involved has admitted to the wrong doing and is filled with "remorse".

Unfortunately this type of thing is bad for everyone involved in stamp collecting/selling as it undermines years of trust, especially trust in 'official' bodies who are meant to watch over the rest of us, no matter where we reside.

alex

As the motto of Stamp Community says
'Education is the key to collector success.'

I read the other board's thread but stopped (skipped over) where someone was starting to call other people names. I don't use the other board because of this unfriendliness rearing up at times there. There are generally good people there with good information and intentions, but the board does not seem to have the policing of unfriendliness that makes this board seem so friendly.

And I myself have been policed on this board when starting out and I appreciate it now as otherwise I would seem to always be in a bad mood and angry or something and enough of that would scare new people off which is not what you want. Hats off to the moderators and Admin folks. Live and learn. Live long and prosper.

And live and learn with stamps and how some stamps are not what they seem. I was and am interested in cancels and was really upset when I discovered that some can be and are faked at times. And that's just one little tip of the iceberg I come to find out.

Do I care? Yes. Do others care? Yes. Can we do something about it? Sometimes, but it's best to be smart because sometimes it takes time to figure it all out and stop or slow down the forgery an faking. Will I stop collecting? Nope. I enjoy it too much.

It's like, will you stop driving a car because someone sold you a lemon? Heck no, now you know better and can try to get a better car from a better guy after you take this one back if you can. You know what to look for and be wary of.

How can you help (if you wanted to)? Learn. Do it right, learn a little, share your thoughts. Learn some more, share some more. Read that motto again up on the top left. And then, read it again.

Nitrolures, yes the ongoing "Bunnies" issue has many collectors cheesed off. The good news is, if one buys from that Gentleman you are exempt from the bunnies category.
Surely using that 'term' is detrimental to one's business, collectors who buy from e/bay also buy from Dealers.

I have a few rare Aust items that I picked up for a song on ebay,So if that makes me a bunny bring it on.

Aussie Al you did well buying, especially the stamps/covers depicting Moto Cycles, genuine character portrayed on those covers.

Blue Owl Stamps should be made to give Bonus Stamps
as a form of torture from a jail base operation
with no profit to themselves.

No wonder no one would trust us at first on ebay.

Never buy big ticket items without having a certificate
of authenticity from a credible source and not
from the back of a corn flakes packet.

Blue Owl Stamps ( ebay ID blueowl2000) continues to buy poor quality material and alter it by rust treatment (which is only ever temporary) or regumming or reperfing and offer it back on ebay to unsusopecting sellers. Avoid this seller at al times, if you are a seller on ebay ban logonbid (blue owl's wife who shill bids for him) and blueowl2000 from bidding on your stamps and don't buy from him.

I collect pre-decimal Australia and have been following the blue Owl saga from the start. It's to bad, they have some very nice stamps and didn't need to do this.
What bothers me is, the shrill bidding to drive the price up. You are a CROOK when you do this. I will never even look at anything they offer again.

I have made contact wth Jude through the ebay message system.

My message was this:

"Jude,

I offered some support to you earlier becuae I thought the stampboards forum posters (I am not one) were carrying on a bit. You seem perfectly prepared to sell items that have been manipulated by you. Don't you see it is wrong? . The philatelic world is small, you can't expect to reperf and regum and remove rust without disclosure. You do a disservice to yourself and the honest philatelic community. Too many eyes are watching for you to get away with any more of this nonsense. Why don't you go and sell cars?"

This is his response, unedited:

"Thank you for your earlier support, I did note some sensible and balanced comments and that was good to see given SB's reputation in the wider philatelic community. I am unable to comment on the reperfing matter as it is currently before the APTA committee. The process may not be within the time frame SB may like, but I was quite rightly immediately suspended and stripped of all APTA benefits. A suspended member can't resign, they have to go through the constitutional process otherwise it would just be a lynch mob! Even if I could comment on SB I don't think it would be helpful at this stage anyway. The one comment I did make to a SB member who I gave an honest answer to prior to him pretending to want to bid on an item of mine was just ridiculed After APTA concludes its investigation and ruling I may come on, but would need an undertaking from the proprietors that my blogs would not be edited.

In respect to the latest accusations, it's true and a matter of record the The Two Pound CofA Specimen was purchased on ebay for $68. A pretty fair price for the seller given its look. I liked the variety on it and could see the seller used an enhanced scan which always makes the stamp look more toned than it really is. I cleaned only the front with product that can be bought at many stamp shops and is is widely used by collectors and has been since day one. It's a widely excepted practice as it is with covers. The back of the stamp is untouched by me and what you see in my ebay scan now is a perfectly accurate representation of the stamp. It has fully original hinged gum. If any one would like to come out from behind their avatar you are welcome to come to my office to inspect the stamp. $175 for the set is a fair price. The OS CTO's referred to came directly from a recent public auction in Postmaster General's Collector packs and were stamps I have plently of stock of. I decided to strip the packs and sold those excess stamps on ebay. I think the buyer did pretty well. They are not reperfed, regummed or anything else. Once again if anyone would like to visit my office I will happily show you all the documentation the packs and remaining stamps. The two pound small multi has been in my website stock for sometime, I decided wholesale it off on ebay. It came from a private collection a couple of years ago and I allowed too much for it. It can actually be bought for $3950 as it's a Best Offer offering. The claim it is reperfed at top is just one opinion. Other seasoned dealers have looked it over and have only rejected it for the split perf on top. You can be assured if they thought it was a reperf they would soon let me know about it.

If you wish to publish this on SB that's fine by me. I have also sent a copy to other relevent parties and would trust it will be published unedited.

Thank you and
yours sincerely
Jude Koch"

This is the original purchased stamp:





This is the stamp reoffered:








Would some of the professional dealers here please comment on how prevalent this sort of action is?

The before and after scans of that £2 'Roo are interesting. Although Mr Koch says he hasn't touched the back of the stamp, the incipient foxing at top left in the original scan of the reverse seems to have entirely disappeared in the after scan. The gum also seems to have become distinctly lighter.

The other day, I noticed a faked Barwani cover on a Canadian dealer's Web site. I pointed it out to him, and explained why it had to be a fake. He immediately removed it. No ifs or buts. I will deal with him again.