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Franklin I.d. (#522) But Odd Perforation?

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Rest in Peace
United States
7097 Posts
Posted 09/17/2011   7:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add I_Love_Stamps to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
OK I'm sorting out a crap-load of the 522 style Franklins and got one I cant find in the book. Perf 11 1/4 X 10 1/2 Any idea what this pup is? Here is a scan. Maybe the precancel will help? Thank you for any input on this. I'm sorting through a ton of these and found most of the common perforations (perf 10, 11, coils, etc..)



EDIT: I added this picture to help with the description
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Edited by I_Love_Stamps - 09/18/2011 10:47 am

Valued Member
United States
103 Posts
Posted 09/17/2011   7:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add who knew to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nice looking stamp there.These Wa./Franklins keep one busy for sure.
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103 Posts
Posted 09/17/2011   7:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add who knew to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Awwww man.. been staring at these suckers so long they all look alike.
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United States
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Posted 09/17/2011   7:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add I_Love_Stamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
They definitely do. I have some of THE Washington Franklins but this one came along a little later. There still is about 8 or 9 different varieties of it though. I just can't find this one listed? I checked and double checked & triple checked and it's a perf. 11.25 X 10.5 (11 1/4 X10 1/2)
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Posted 09/17/2011   7:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chasa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
11x10.5 SC632, sometimes the perfs measure a little weird, or maybe you need a new perf gauge, or even more unlikely it has been re-perforated.
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Posted 09/17/2011   8:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add I_Love_Stamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Well despite me not being able to find this one in the book, I just found 8 more of them, so they must not be too uncommon!? Any Ideas anyone?
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Posted 09/18/2011   07:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add I_Love_Stamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you chasa. I didn't see that last night and my perf guage is brand spankin' new! lol

Actually I have PILES of the 632, 1-#581, and a bunch of the coils #597 and I, for the life of me, cant find it in the book!







Edited for Spelling corrections.
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Edited by I_Love_Stamps - 09/18/2011 10:51 am
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Posted 09/18/2011   10:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add I_Love_Stamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
So NO ONE is going to chime in on this huh? I ABSOLUTELY measured it correctly so I have NO DOUBT about it. I'm sure it's very common but I just can't find it in the book is all. I know that with some perforation gagues you must take some liberties but these are spot on and too many to be a fluke or the like. I'm stumped so please tell me what you know on this. Is Chasa correct about all those being #632? I have a small mountain of #632's and they measure right so why not these? Shrinkage?
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Posted 09/18/2011   10:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add I_Love_Stamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a picture. - Perf 111/4 X 101/2 -

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Edited by I_Love_Stamps - 09/18/2011 10:49 am
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United States
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Posted 09/18/2011   11:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wt1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm no expert on this, but here's one plausible answer:

I have an accurate perforation gauge I still use from the 1970's (I think). The gauge is limited to whole and half perforation sizes ONLY. If you look back in the Scott catalog, there has been no occasion where I have found that the catalog ever listed a perforation size of less than 1/2 intervals. It has only been since the 1990's that the perforations were measured more accurately.

It is my contention that even if there were certain times that perforation sizes were off by less than 1/2, it would be rounded up to next size. Perforation sizes of 1/4 never qualified for a listing in the Scott catalog, presumably because there was not the level of accuracy back then as there is today.

As your perforation gauge is new, it is very likely that you may find a number of so-called "varieties" in perforation measurements of early US stamps that have never been seen fit to be listed in the Scott catalog. One can therefore assume that these minor varieties are of minimal premium value above the whole or 1/2 perforation measurements already listed.

Of course, I'm sure there are specialists that would pursue these unlisted minor varieties, but I doubt they would bring much (if any) of a premium value to the current catalog listings.
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Posted 09/18/2011   12:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add I_Love_Stamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you wt1 that seems to make sense. Was it you that wanted those precancels? I got the 8 or so stamps I wanted out of the lot so let me know if your looking for something in particular because I may just have it. I'm not into precancels really and I have a slew of them! Thanks again -Jeff
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Posted 09/18/2011   1:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Russ to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
First thing that I noticed was that the stamp is less than 11.25. If you look at the alignment of the of the white horizontal lines they line up in the center of the perf web at the top of the image and are on the inboard edge at the bottom of the image. So the perf actually is between 11 and 11.25.

There is a difference in the variation of perforation spacing in regards to feed perforations and cross perforations.

A little info on perforations. The first perforation machines were designed for flat plate printing where a sheet of normally 100 to 400 stamps was perforated. With U.S. stamps, a rotary perforator was used. The sheets were fed one at a time through the machine which would perforate one direction only (vertical or horizontal). The sheets were then rotated 90 degrees and passed through a second perforator to finish the other direction. Coil stamps were only perforated in one direction.

The rotary perforator maintained very accurate spacing since the perf pins passed through a bottom guide and more than one pin was in partial engagement at a time.

An early rotary perforator is shown below.


A close-up of the pins and guide is shown below


As you can see this arrangement will maintain very good spacing.

The stamp in question is a rotary press printing which is done quite differently. The fourth Bureau rotary press stamps were all printed on the second generation Stickney press. The second generation press is shown below (with Benjamin Stickney standing to the side) and the location of the 2 perforators is shown with the red line.


It is had to see the perforators as they are covered by the stamp guide bridge. Below is a better view from the larger rotary used on the 1938 presidentials. Perforators are indicated by red lines.


The perforation process occurs on the continuously moving printed stamp web. The feed direction perfs (10.5 perf) on the long dimension is done much the way it was on the old rotary perforator with the guides. The cross perforations (11 perf) are only applied across the top or bottom of the stamp and is not continuous as the sides are. To facilitae this process without damaging the printed web a slightly greater amount of "float" is applied to the perforation. This causes greater variance on the cross perforations on the rotary press stamps.

I hope this helps in understanding the slight differences in the perf measurements.
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Posted 09/18/2011   2:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bfranton to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Russ... you are amazing! Thanks. Barb
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Posted 09/18/2011   2:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add I_Love_Stamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
OK, methinks I have it now.

I had to hinge those stamps to my perf gauge for that scan! lol
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Posted 09/18/2011   11:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Russ to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a pic of the BEP perf room showing the rotary perforator in use (from about 1910). This is the second perf operation since it is on half sheets from flat plate printing.

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Posted 09/19/2011   12:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add kosmet to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Impressive research Russ. Thank you for contributions of philatelic history.
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