Help With A 1838 Impression/Envelope

Hello All!

I am sure you get this all the time but I am new here and in need of some assisatance. Last Night, I went into my addic and found my grandfathers collection of first day issue stamps. In it, was hundreads of first day issue stamps from assorted years. I also found some other things. Among those other things, was an envelope dated Oct. 1838, with a greeen george washington oval shaped impression in the upper right hand corner. I put the envelope up to a light and in it, the paper says "POD" or something along that and has some weird emblem. I searched for information and my seach eventually led me here. I have taken a picture with my cell-phone but it is far from good quality. I can certainly get a better picture but I was just curious if anybody could help me out. Thank you soooo much for any help/consideration!

Welcome to Stamp Community Forum, bryanbjt223!

I'm absolutely certain that it is not 1838, as that was not issued until many years later.

I cannot see the postmark clearly. What is the reason you believed the item is from 1838?

You will have to provide a much higher resolution picture, focusing on the actual stamp and postmark in order for us to help you more.

Hi bryanbjt223,

You are probably seeing a partial date stamp which looks like 1838, but which is more likely 1898.

I apoligize for that picture. I will have better pictures for you shortly. The postmark says "Placerville, Idaho OCT. 1838". The back of the envelope has two postmarks as well but are not as read-able as the front. I was only assuming the date because of that. Thanks for responding so quickly too. :)

I'm thinking along the same lines as smauggie. It is likely a smudged or incomplete postmark.

Yes, if you have an opportunity, a higher resolution picture would help. Thanks!

If I researched correctly, Placerville was founded in 1862 (I did not verify with another independent reference). So the postmark year must certainly be after that.

Thank you so much for your comments...here are those pictures. Had a little trouble getting the size right but hopefully here it goes.

Only one picture can be uploaded at a time?

Here's the last picture I took...

The first US postage stamp was issued in 1847. The firtst piece of Postal Stationery (what you have) was not until 1853. Prior to stamps there was mail delivery, but not with postal stationery. Your item was released in 1887( the exact Scott's or UPSS number is determined by the envelope color and a few other things). I would venture a guess that it is a partial cancellation of 1888 that we are seeing. You are seeing a watermark when you shine the light through your envelope. This reply is just a skim over in the proverbial bucket of information you can learn on postal stationery. If I am incorrect on anything, I am sure someone will correct me.

I haven't done it in awhile, but you should be able to upload more than one picture per post -- but you do have to select and upload them one at a time.

I agree with the others, the year date is either 1898 or 1888 (I'm leaning toward 1888).

It is not a first day cover.

The stamp DESIGN TYPE appears to be U71, but it's hard to tell with a higher resolution picture. If it is U71, numerous varieties ranging from 25c to a few dollars (corresponding to Scott catalog #U305-U317). The other 2 design types (U70 and U72) are more valuable. You definitely do not have U70, but I cannot tell for certain that it's not U72.

I'm not good with stamped envelopes, so I hope someone else can chime in.

ehh, thanks guys.I can honestly say I know nothing about stamps except they keep getting more expensive. Please do not be offended by my ignorance. So, I should check out this Scott Catalog for U70,U71, U72? The library should have it, right? Does this Scott Catalog list prices?

A few interesting tidbits:

First, I read the cancel as being October ?, 1888.

Second, Placerville, Idaho no longer has a post office, having been in operation from 1863-1967. Stamp collectors typically designate these areas as DPO's (discontinued post office) and therefore the cancellations can be a collecting discipline all by themselves.

As far as Placerville is concerned, today it is virtually a ghost town. Has a population of about 60 (many part-time residents) and the area is typically frequented only by history seekers, hunters and ATV and snowmobile recreationalists:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placerville,_Idaho

This Ghost Town web site has a few images of what the remaining "town" looks like today:

http://www.ghosttowngallery.com/htm...cerville.htm

As for your embossed envelope, it's in the range of postal stationery issues between U311 and U323, released between 1887-1894 (which fits the cancel date suggested above). We would need a much more detailed image of the indicia as there are subtle lines in the image of George Washington that make the difference between a common and rare variety of the envelope, which can range in catalog value from a few cents to a few hundred dollars, depending on that detail.

Out of curiosity I would like to see a photo of the cancels on the back please?

To get a really good picture go to a library or a friend perhaps and use a flatbed scanner to get the picture. Hard to do with a camera unless you have the lighting and everything set up properly.

Welcome by the way!

Some libraries have them. The Scott US Specialized catalog lists all the varieties for that stamped envelope, but most libraries do not have the US Specialized. If yours doesn't, then see if they have Scott Standard Postage Stamp Catalog Volume 1. That volume will have the abbreviated listings, but will describe the major varieties and price them for cut squares. Looks like you have the entire cover, not just cut square. Prices for entires are listed in the US Specialized. In general, the entires have a catalog pricer higher than for cut squares.

Also, remember the U70-U72 are the IDs for the DESIGN NUMBER found underneath the stamp illustrations in the catalog. The actual catalog numbers, as wt1 pointed out, will be between U305 and U323. It's a little confusing that Scott would use the same letter prefix here, so be forewarned.

Wow! You guys are great! KHJ, I can not thank you enough for that explanation. I shall see my local library tomorrow. WT1, thank you for that piece as well. I appreciate you pointing out DPO's to me. So, taking this all into consideration I'm still a little bit unsure how I can determine a correct monetary value.