Bulleye Postmark / Cancel Question

Hi Everyone,
I am going through some of my 1 cent, and I have seen many different postmarks but this is my first one with the bulleye like mark. Also there is another one with a large bulleye? And I have many different stamps with the "1" inside the oval like marking, but have also seen other numbers inside.

What do those numbers represent?
Also, do the round marks on both stamps have the same name?

One last question, is a postmark the same thing as a cancellation on a stamp?

Edit... I just added a couple more photos... one mark looks like a starfish, a purple bullseye and a number 3 in the stripes. I also see the letter "E" and the letter "H", I don't know what they stand for.. an one of those oval cancels, but this time, no number inside?







Thank you
SueStamps

The ovals are the killer from a duplex cancel. The cancel stamp below is a 9 bar duplex.



The letters in the killer is normally the post office branch. The numerals are sometimes post office branch numbers and sometimes postal clerk numbers.

Another couple of examples of early cancels that are similar to what are shown in your second scan:

Thank you so much to the both of you. Now I have an idea of what they are, the name and another category for me now.. is to collect and watch for cancellation marks.

I love that metal hand stamp, wow!
Thanks again!
SueStamps

The football or footprint shape, more properly called ovate or ellipsoid is the second part of the ovate duplex cancel, the first part being a circular date stamp (CDS).

From Ask Phil at http://www.collectorsclubchicago.org/b25o.htm


So an ellipsoid-shaped ovate bar duplex cancellation.

The word cancellation means to cancel the value of a stamp, that is to stop anyone from reusing it a second time. The word obliteration or obliterator means the same in regards to stamps. To obliterate the denominated value of a stamp by visually cancelling out it's stated value. Which is usually served by placing non-removable ink marks somewhere on a stamp.

A postmark is the part of a cancel (if there is more than one part that is) that has the place name and date within it, so as to show when it was posted to the mails.

A duplex is the combination of the postmark as one part and the cancellation or obiteration as the second part.

Ask Phil:



Similar to this Ludgate Circle, London late fee duplex cancellation (on ebay):


Also See:
https://goscf.com/t/8018

Hi Everyone,
I thought I would continue with this previous post instead of starting a new one.

Here are some more stamps I have come across that I have a few questions. First of all, is there a website that has a list of all the Post Offices so I can try and determine where the stamp originated and also I have a few questions that I have asked above each photo.



Here are some duplex cancels, I want to know what is the highest number anyone has seen inside the football oval cancel? As you can see in this photo below, there is one with 21, 30, RMS, the letter "E" (machine #?), a solid football with NO number, GPO (Grand Post Office?) and my favorite one is the AIR MAIL, because this is the only one I have





Here we have a couple that remind me of a Hershey's Kiss , One with a cross, circles within circles and different sized circles and a donut!





I'll take a guess and say that these are the cities from original Post Office, are these cities stamped within the "stripes" of a flag cancel?





This small batch of stamps shows numbers inside parenthesis, machine numbers?





Middle top looks like the number zero inside oval?
Bottom yellow middle, looks like a letter inside
Some do not have anything inside while others, yes...
I wonder what the bottom right orange stamp initials are from?





Another "type" of cancel?





I would also like to know if there is a list someone has or online, with all the different quotes (Jubilee Osteopathic, Fight TB Support Your, Build (something) Wisely, etc?

Most of the cancels in the first scan are the oval killers from duplex. The GPO is General Post Office and RMS is Railway Mail Service.

Second scan block is double oval which was used for parcels or letters that were not processed throught the cancel machines. They were common on parcel post, regestry and special delivery.

Third scan with wavy lines are roller cancels normally used on parcels. The 720 is a machine cancel ? street. The ?byville, TEX is a box cancel.

Fourth scan are roller.

Fifth scan are double oval with post office name.

Sixth scan are box.

Seventh scan are slogan killers from machine cancels.

For me, I've seen them as high as 97:






The double oval handstamp you refer to is New York (G.C. Annex) -- Grand Central Annex.

More on duplex cancels. You scanned several various "football" killer strikes that show words such as "Air Mail" or abbreviations such as "C.A." While other cities used them, too, New York City was particularly prolific in their use of various initials within the "killer" strike.

The "C.A." killer you scanned would have been New York City, Church Street Annex. I also have a few with other New York City post offices, such as:

Madison Square Station:


Times Square Station:


In the 1940s when most duplex postmarks gave way to machine cancels, New York City was still very prolific in using machine cancel "killers" imprinted with the name of the post office station or branch, as shown in these examples:

Here is an example of AEF APO 728 duplex



Here is an example of Chicago & Milwaukee Ave Streetcar RPO with "STREET RPO"

While the terms are quite often used interchangably.

However, the true meaning of a postmark would be the typical CDS (Circular Date Stamp) that shows the post office name and date, etc.

On the other hand, the term cancellation is typically referring to the killer bars or markings that obliterate the stamp to prevent its re-use, such as bars, lines, ovals, slogans and any number of other similar types of markings.

Russ: Am I correct in assuming the 3-digit numbers shown in your duplex cancel would have been reserved for APO addresses that had 3-digit numbers assigned to them? In other words, it would be highly unlikely to see any 3-digit numbers used in duplex cancels used within the US for regular (non-military) mail.

Great examples Sue Stamps! Dating back to origin of the usage, I read the intention was not only to "kill" the stamp with the cancel portion but even if stamp fell off ensure delivery. I know in canada it was basically postmaster law that the cds be on the cover and not on the stamp thus making early issues with clear cds marks rather rare. The "law" was relaxed late 1890's . Eiether portion can be highly collectable in there own right with many of the early post offices no longer in existance. However cancels are a complete study on their own and some even on low value stamps can increase value immensly.

wt1, I don't know of any 3-digit duplex killers used other than the AEF APO. Not all APO had the number in the killer.

Such a great topic and so many wonderful replies!
Thank you all so much.

With all this information, I am even more super excited to go through my draw full of these! (It's a little drawer, 5 x 5 x 2)



Love love all the photos, it's great to see what I don't have and what I can look for plus all the great information!

I will add these to my website.
Thanks so much,
SueStamps

I am not aware of any comprehensive list of slogan cancels that is available on line. I'm sure there are some catalogs, but even then, there are numerous local and regional events that have used slogan cancels of various types.

The best on-line source for the general slogan cancels that were most often seen (some are local and some were used nationwide) is this list posted by the DC Stamp Club, but it is regionalized for Washington, DC only and I suspect you could create a separate catalog for virtually any city in the US:

http://www.dcstampclub.org/pdfs/DC_..._Cancels.pdf

An interesting side note is that as recently as this month, there are still a few older cancelling machines in operation ... one still says "ALWAYS USE ZIP CODE"!

Of course, other collectors specialize in things like the 1911-1916 machine cancels from San Francisco for the Panama Pacific Exposition. Just looking at this presentation, shows that there are a number of similar machine cancels with ever so slight variations that make collecting all of the possible varieties a real challenge:

http://www.rfrajola.com/mercury/DS4.pdf