Certification Of US Stamps And Selling On Ebay

"Joe, the presumption is that experts can tell the difference, but that this is extremely difficult to do, even for them."

To make myself clearer, my point was that if even experts have a hard time telling the difference, why is it considered two varieties (with often very significant price differences). Personally, I think any stamp that can't easily be differentiated from the next should just get minor Scott numbers. I never understood the fascination some have with the Franklin-Washington series. To me they all look the same! But if they are just about indistinguishable to the experts, who cares! I would bet that there are many stamps that if one were to really devote time to, one could find different paper stock used or the like. But dose anyone care? And if the Bureau issues were from say Argentina, do you really think the minute differences would earn a separate Scott number for each minor variation!

The rant of a WW collector, so take it with a grain of salt!

IF you are going to sell a high value stamp on ebay, I would suggest you get a cert. first.
If you send it to Bill, tell him that if it turns out to be what you think it is, than issue a cert (cost 20.00) if not then ID only (cost 5.00). I do this with him all the time. It saves money spent on stamps that aren't what the seller said. and There are a number of sellers I do business with who will refund the the cost of the cert if it is not what they say or has major undescribed faults. (CKstamps is not one of them)

As re CKStamps: Word!

JimJam2- I'm going to elaborate for awhile here-- you may or may not agree with what I'm going to say, but I'm trying to be helpful to you here.

Either way, this stamp is seriously faulty, with several short perfs (not faulty, but not desirable), a pulled perf on the top (faulty), and the horizontal crease. Can't tell if this is a 5c blue or 3c purple, but you should have a cert.

Weiss and APS both have ID service also. For members, APS can give an ID for $5.00, and have the answer to you via email. You only send APS an image of the stamp, so this all goes quickly. Weiss also has a $5.00 ID service where you can mail him the stamp, or send an image. There are members here at SCF who have used his ID service for an ebay purchase, sent him the ebay ID number, and receive back an opinion.

There are other features of a bluish paper stamp that you can also investigate:
1. Is the paper more opaque than the same issue, wood pulp?
2. Does the bluish look more cloudy when held up to a bright light compared with the same issue, wood pulp?
3. Can you see the weave in the wood pulp paper, but not in the bluish?
4. Is the watermark in the correct position for this stamp? 359 must be reversed and inverted, 361 must be normal, inverted.
5. Can you see colored specks in the paper at high magnification?
6. Can you see blue dye on the edges when it's on the orange paper-- (if you can, it may have been dyed at some point).

So for the experts, please understand that there are several characteristics that an expert can consider when identifying a bluish paper vs wood pulp. If you're going to sell this type of material, you should know about it, extensively. I'd suggest to any US classics student 3 books on the Washington/Franklins:

1. "Washington Franklins 1909-21", by Martin A. Armstrong (THE Bible for W/F)
2. "The Expert's Book", AND "How to Detect Damaged, Altered, and Repaired Stamps", both by Paul W. Schmid.

Question-- if you're worried that one of the services may not say the stamp is bluish, even though you think it's bluish, then why would you ever consider selling it as bluish, for the buyer to determine whether it's genuine or not? When it comes to buying rare, US Classic stamps, if genuineness is in potential question, the opinion that is most important is the impartial 3rd Party opinion.

I suggest you look at the following ebay Guide written by Bill Weiss on which US Stamps should be expertized (and the stamp you want to list is definitely on his list): http://reviews.ebay.com/WHY-HAVE-YO...000001888322

Hope all of this has been helpful-- I really want this to go well for you. Thanks, Ray

joe, in response I'd say that the matter of paper stocks gets to the heart of the way in which the catalogues regulate the collecting of stamps. It seems to be the case that if it is known from official records that a particular variety of paper was used to print a stamp, then the catalogues will list the stamp as a variety and price it accordingly. In cases where official records do not exist, or research has not yet been conducted into the subject, the paper variety is not acknowledged in the catalogues.

Your point, if I understand it correctly, is certainly a valid one. In this case, Scott assigns a catalogue number to a stamp because of the paper variety. In most cases, such stamps would be listed as subtypes. It is curious that this was not done in the case of the blue paper varieties.

ray.mac, I really appreciate the specificity of your observations, which I guess is what I was hoping for. I am simply not satisfied by the idea that the expert will know the real thing when he sees it because he's seen plenty before. I want to know what details the expert would be looking at. You've helped a good deal in that respect.

Most interestingly, you wrote, 'Is the watermark in the correct position for this stamp? 359 must be reversed and inverted, 361 must be normal, inverted.' Does this mean, then, that the matter can be decided on the basis of the watermark? If so, distinguishing between the two issues should be a fairly straightforward matter.

I do appreciate that the stamp has conspicuous defects, but given the rarity of the issue, I'm not exactly going to throw it on the scrap heap. This is opening up another question entirely, but I have seen high CV stamps sold on ebay where the seller acknowledges that the stamp has been repaired and they've still obtained a good price for the stamp. If my stamp is the genuine article, I think that's something I'd have to consider doing myself. (I see no problem in repairing tears and other defects if potential buyers are informed that this has been done.)

Last, since you raised the subject earlier, I'd like to say something about the origin of the stamp. I found it in a large lot of German stamps that I bought from what appears to me to have been a deceased estate of a German person who had been saving stamps and bits of covers since about 1916 and who lived later in the GDR. This person seems to have had some contact with the US during a period of about a decade, because mixed in with the German stamps were odd bits and pieces from US airmail covers dating from the late 1920s and early 1930s. This lot was actually the source of nearly all the American stamps I've asked questions about on this forum over the last six months.

Jim Jam Two-- please don't take any of this personally, but in my opinion, before one starts selling US Classic stamps, one should be the expert.

If you read the references I've posted, you will know the answers on the watermarks. As a student of Washington Franklins, you'll need to know the position of the watermarks, especially when you're looking at flat plate coils. AND bluish papers.

Most collectors who specialize in W/F, find that 2 of the bluish papers are affordable- 357 ad 358. Both can be purchased for $100 or less each. You don't need a cert when you're dealing in that price range, unless you want one for confidence that the stamp is what you think it is. 369, in the Lincoln series is also affordable, and can be bought at least hinged, in the $100 range.

The other bluish papers are a completely different story. Both scarce and rare-- and there is a difference in those two words, there MUST be a cert with any stamp of that scarcity.

Here is what you are up against-- again, in the references:

If it is 3c violet:

Perf 12, Bluish Paper issued #359: 4,000
Perf 12, DL Watermark #333: 175 million
Perf 12, SL Watermark #376: 210 million
4000 divided by 385 million: 1.03 chances in 100,000 of being #359

If 5c blue
Perf 12, Bluish Paper issued #361: 4,000
Perf 12, DL Watermark #335: 330 million
Perf 12, SL Watermark #378: 380 million
4,000 divided by 760 million: 5.2 chances in 1,000,000 of being #361

As a dealer, and as an ebay seller, you do NOT take those odds. You also are a fool if you take those odds as a buyer. You get the cert.

I hope you do submit and receive a cert that says "bluish paper with faults". If you do, please tell Linn's Stamp News, and the story will make Page 1 as huge news in philately. And please email me and tell me first, so I can publicly "EAT CROW" on SCF!

Ray