A138 And A139

Hi again...just trying to figure things out here.

Not sure if this is anything. I hope I'm not being a pain.
One question..Is it better to keep stamps with postmarks or soak them off?

Thanks again.

Good question, but I doubt you'll get a consensus on this one.

Both stamps are of minimal value, but the postmarks add some eye-appeal imo. I don't have any information on St Joseph, Mich postmark, but it might be of interest if it's obscure.

Brian

St. Joseph is a common Postmark as the Post Office opened in the early to mid 1800's and remains open to this date.

Ask your questions,any question is not a "pain".

It really depends on how you collect. Do you collect covers? If you do then you might leave the stamps intact and add them to your cover collection. If you only collect for your albums then soak them, there are of no extra value on the envelope.

Butch

Keep both stamps with the postmark. It's not too often you see a postmark like Saint Joseph, Michigan, where the postmark was time stamped 2 AM! It's also interesting that the town used different machine cancels one reading Saint Joseph and the other St. Joseph. You wouldn't see either of those varieties today!

The earlier 1911 postmark from Chicago is a bit unusual, too. How often do you see the day and the time on the same line? It's a rather unique, early example of a postmark from nearly 101 years ago, so I'd keep it.

Even though the stamps have minimal value, the postmarks add so much postal history to them.

What a coincidence. I happen to be researching cancels this morning. While I didn't find what I wanted (ended up getting satisfaction here on SCF, as usual) I did stumble on some other reference.
The Chicago cancel is a Time Marking machine cancel by Cummins in use from 1905 to the 1920s.
Don't know anything else about it, but that's something.

Weird thing is that the St Joseph postmark isn't listed with the Postmark collectors club. I'll scan a couple from the 1800's later tonight for comparison. I sent a letter to a contact I have who deals with Michigan postal history to get his insight on it.

Thanks, jamesw, for the ID of that Chicago postmark. I see that there's a complete book written about nothing else but this type of postmark, which would suggest that there are numerous varieties of the cancellation that were in use through the first two decades of the 20th century.

I actually found this cover for sale on a postal history web site that, interestingly, shows a similar (but not exact) postmark from Chicago the year before the example scanned earlier. While not quite the same, I do find it interesting it also shows the "14" and "C" identifiers within the killer bars ... what are the chances you'd find that so easily?



See what postal history we can find by showing not only the stamp but the postmark!

Hi Idaclare and welcome to the forum

My personal feeling about your question is this: If the stamps you have scanned are on piece (not the whole cover) then it should be ok to soak them. If they are on the whole cover, then I would be inclined to leave them that way.

Chimo

Bujutsu

You guys are amazing..I thank you again for your comments and suggestions.

I have boxes of postmarks like the ones I posted...my mom had been collecting stamps since the fifties so I have a lot to go through. I hope you all don't mind if I post a few more as I go through these.

One thing I've noticed myself Jamesw..that sort of thing happens to me a lot too. "coincidenes"..that's another story for another time.

Take care all and thanks again.

Hi to all

Recently I was at a monthly stamp show. There were thousands of stamps off paper. But one dealer had all his stamps on paper neatly trimmed to save the postmarks. I asked him why. He said if you want to soak them off then that is ok, but there could be a rare postmark that even I do not know about and you will damage a rare item. Me unless they are Victorian to George V, then I will soak them off.
Regards
Horamakhet

Here is the St Joseph 1846, I've also found 1845 in the pile but they are both St, not Saint.



The Chicago cancel I've found earliest of 1907 and the latest in 1913. I have all the in between too but none that saw offhand.

This one is marked Evanston, which borders Chicago to the North on Lake Michigan.





And this I believe is the exact same one.

Notice the Evanston, IL example has 8 killer bars, versus 7 for the others.

See what kind of extra "fun" you can have exploring these postmarks?! (That's exactly why I would choose to leave them on cover.)

Not sure of all the connections, but based on the last covers posted by stallzer, this Social Register quote has to fit into the equation somewhere:

Yes, they are Family letters. Phyllis Hoyt is my Grandmother and Thatcher is my Grandfather as I am 7th generation Hoyt and named after Robert Fergus. My Mother lived at 1406 N.State when she was a child.
Also the St Joseph Michigan letter is sent to Jonathan Hoyt, son of Lucius Hoyt and if I remember my family Tree, Jonathan is Thatchers grandfather.

What interesting information we can gather!

By the way, the Chicago postmarks shown are similar but not exact as this side-by-side comparison will show:



Differences that I can see (there may be others):

1. The line (or lack of one) in front of the "14" in the killer bars.
2. The distance between the bars and the letter "C" in the killer bars.
3. There are differences in the width of the "19" of the year.
4. There are differences in the width of the "AM" in the time line.
5. Although not as clear in the first example, I suspect the "AG" in "CHICAGO" shows slightly different serifs.

A little about the post marks. The Chicago posted by idaclare and stallzer are from a Cummins Co. Model A105 Machine #14. The one posted by wt1, although it appears similar, is International Postal Supply Co Model D32 machine #14.

The Staint Joseph Mich is a Universal D series (I don't know the exact model).

Canal Station is also a Cummins but Model J142a. Cummins were manufactured in Chicago and were popular in that area.

Evanston was Cummins Model A102.