#212 Mint Block Of 8(Not Sure)? For Your Evaluation

Here is another item from my dad's collection. On the reverse, the gum is very nice, though it is hard to tell from the scan. It looks like there are several strips on the reverse perfs, I am guessing to reinforce them? Can these be removed without damaging the stamps, or is it best to leave them be?

Also I think those are hinge remnants on a couple of the center stamps. Anyways, let me know your thoughts.

That is a beautiful block, and I would advise you not to mess with it! The strips are there for a reason, I imagine, and if they should have to be removed I would find someone who is familiar with this

As Scott #212, the stamps would have a catalog value in mint condition of $100 per stamp or $475 in a block of 4 (in other words a $75 premium for a block of 4), but in your case there are condition problems that would greatly diminish that valuation:

First, do the stamps have original gum on them (difficult to tell from the scan)?

Second, the strips of gummed paper on the reverse perforations were put there because the stamps have come apart from their perforations. This greatly diminishes their value and would probably put them back to near the single stamp value, as they are no longer true multiples with the separated perforations.

Third, the stamps are not particularly well centered, which would render their condition lower than that listed in the Scott Catalog, which would also diminish the per stamp value.

Fourth, the first "block of 4" stamps have a straight edge on the left side, which typically diminishes their value on the secondary market.

Finally, as you pointed out, the stamps do have blemishes on the centermost stamps and that would also have a negative impact on their value.

Having said all that, you do have a fine multiple of stamps that is not often seen and I would certainly leave them alone (that is, keep them in the format they are in and don't tamper with the reinforcing strips) as some collectors may still find them more interesting in a multiple than as single stamps.

As for true market value, I doubt the examples shown would bring anywhere near the catalog value of $100 per mint stamp. In fact, there are at least two offerings of mint single stamps of #212 on ebay right now (with better centering than your examples) at a "Buy It Now" price of $50 to $60, and no bidders, which should tell you something.

Obviously, your multiple of these stamps certainly has value, but with all of the issues recited above, the actual secondary market value is probably very open to interpretation depending on supply and demand for the stamps in the multiple shown and depending how bad a collector may want them.

Do not remove the reinforcement. These are pos 81-84R and 91/94R. With this being the bottom row the perforator was set for a wider spacing. This give great centering and top/bottom margins on the bottom row of you block. It also has the guide arrow on 91R. 92R has really great centering. Nice piece.

Thank you for all of your points. I do realize that these pieces sell for a fraction of Scott(maybe 25%). It looks like OG to me, but I am not qualified to say for sure. Given that it is, I agree with your points, but one thing that I need to clarify. The Scott price you quoted were for Hinged. Given that the blemishes on the center 2 or 3 stamps are from hinges, doesn't that make the other 5 or 6 NH, with a Scott value of $290 per stamp(according to my 2012 catalogue)? I think that is important to factor in. I am sure the block of 4 value of $475 also assumes all hinged, as it would make more sense to split them up otherwise. thanks again for all of the comments!

It looks like the consensus is to not split the block up. So I will keep it as is. thanks.

Keep in mind the values I was quoting was from the 2011 Scott Catalog. Presumably, the 2012 catalog may have modestly increased those values.

If you have a 2012 catalog go to the center part of it with the yellow striped pages and look at the various conditions of Scott #212. According to my 2011 catalog, the values for Unused No Gum ranges from $7.50 (VG) to $32.50 (VF); Unused Original Gum can range from $25 (VG) to $100 (VF); the Mint NH values range from $55 (VG) to $310 (VF). Again, the 2012 catalog may have modestly increased those values.

I'm not an expert in these issues, but I would assess your stamps in the condition of VG-F for top four (because of the poor centering) and F-VF for the bottom four (with much more correct centering).

Again, there would likely be a further premium placed upon them as a block of 8 as presented, even with the perforation breaks.

I really can't assess what the true market value of these stamps would be since, as I said in my earlier post, it could vary depending on the demand for the stamp in the secondary market. Even though they have a relatively high catalog value, one must consider that they are the lowest denomination in the series and they were rather "common" as a "workhorse" definitive issue back in the day, so demand for them is likely to reflect that.

No. Only if they was separated into singles (Don't do that)

If it ever had a hinge at all in it's life it cannot hold the NH title. I THINK? All my references really don't elaborate on that?

From Scott catalog:

Never Hinged (NH;** ): A never-hinged stamp will have full
original gum that will have no hinge mark or disturbance. The presence
of an expertizer's mark does not disqualify a stamp from this
designation.

I guess this is what confuses me then. As far as I can tell, if the entire block were hinged, the hinge was attached only to those 2 stamps. The other 6 do not show any signs of ever being hinged....which would be NH.

Everyone has told me to keep the block together, but wouldnt this impede that cat value if the entire block was considered hinged? A hinged block of 8 catalogues $850 if VF

Splitting them into singles would give me 6 NH stamps $290 x 6 = $1740, and 2 H examples = $180. A total cat value of $1920 if VF.

This doesnt make sense, I dont think it works to consider the entire block 'Hinged' because 2 stamps show remnants when the rest show no remnants. Am I wrong?

I am quite confident at least 5 of the stamps are NH, 1 I am not sure about as it has a small circular brown spot, but for sake of argument I am calling it NH.

It is certainly possible to have a block (of any size) as mixed hinged and never-hinged. In fact, when blocks of four were temporarily HOT in the 1920s and 1930s, you often find the 2c reds (for instance) massively hinged on the joint between the two top stamps, while the bottom two are pristine perfect.

Well it kills me to say this but I suppose since you are the owner you theoretically could separate them but I would SERIOUSLY caution you against this! Having a block like that is much better and more desirable than singles that are VERY SUPER common. Value is almost squat by comparison. Desirability over any condition in that respect. Value, in my opinion, should only be used to gauge how much to protect it and such, and should not be a criteria for collecting stamps.

johnny,

You have 5 stamps that are hinged, due to the perforation reinforcement, and it appears that 2 of the remaining 3 stamps that haven't been hinged have some type of gum disturbance. That said, your remaining NH stamp (upper left) has a straight edge and a pulled perf. All of that must be factored in to your calculus on pricing.

I agree with you that the Scott valuation on a hinged block is for one in which all stamps in the block have been hinged. My 2011 Specialized gives the price of a hinged single at $100 and a hinged block of 4 at $475 (4x$100 plus a $75 premium for the block). To diminish the value of a hinged block with 2 never hinged stamps (at $310 each in 2011) makes absolutely no sense.

Steve

Don't worry, I have no intention of breaking it up....just trying to understand how it relates to catalogue value.

nice set, I'll take it.

Like many 212's the color has faded. When it comes to pre-1900 blocks I would definitely leave it together. As time goes by the early stamp blocks get harder and harder to find.

I realize this is an old, cold thread, but I would like to weigh in with another angle on this, just so the point is made. Catalog value is a reference standard for comparisons, but real philatelic value is determined by lots of things. On the matter of hinging, your photo shows that five stamps have been effected by hinge reinforcing, and that a 6th stamps has a blemish which disturbs the gum. The only two stamps that could qualify as nh both have straight edges. For a stamp as common as this, the value of the singles is not going to be greater than the value of the block. Why not?

I have a specialized collection of this stamp, and your piece is interesting to me for one reason only: it is a position piece. Russ told you the positions of the stamps from the bottom two rows of the right pane of an unknown plate. Now, (I am not making an offer, I am making a point) for an item like this I would pay a fair portion of the catalog value for the block as a block. But I would not even consider buying any of these stamps as singles at any price. Irrespective of catalog, what is the market value of a stamp you can barely sell. A stamp merchandiser might float it around to see what the 8 singles could fetch, and then offer the block at a premium over the sum. Maybe it would sell at such a price, maybe not. But from the standpoint of philatelic value versus market value, in this case the catalog is only going to be useful as a general guide.