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I would guess this is a transfer from wet ink and pressure. Basically the ink from one impressed a perfect reverse image on the one above. The ideal thing would be to have the whole envelope which likely had the right way image on the front and the reverse technically inside. However I'm not sure if these were printed then folded or pre folded then printed. Interesting even if simple explanation but someone will chime in with more details. |
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| Edited by nitrolures - 10/01/2012 1:40 pm |
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Nitro thank you ..the scans are of only the one stamp,backside is facing right(which would have been the inside on envelope) and the frontside facing left (which is the outside/front on the envelope) I think its virtually impossible for the stamp to come out perfectly on the backside from having soo much ink on it and continuing pressure,,it would probally be very sloppy from ink then soaking outwards from image,but it is not sloppy at all,instead like you said,it is a perfect image |
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| Edited by UFOAirMail - 10/01/2012 1:53 pm |
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Here is an example from an ebay auction I was watching. It is an offset on a Hawaiian cutout.  An offset is very often quite clear, as there isn't that much ink on the wet paper that was right underneath the one showing the offset. Maybe there is another explanation, but that is the easy one. |
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Cjd offset means a stamp on both sides then?? Does that one on ebay have a image on both sides or just one side? |
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Quote: offset means a stamp on both sides then? The easy answer is "yes" but the better answer is that "offset" refers to the reversed image on the back. It can be a transfer from the sheet below. In this case, it might be more likely that the printing press printed when no paper was fed through, which deposited ink on the platen, instead of the paper. That ink would get picked up on the next sheet of paper through the press, but it would be a reverse image, on the back. You can find embossed envelopes without ink, an example of which is referred to as an "albino"... which means that you can also theoretically find an example showing both...an albino front with an offset on the back. I've seen them but do not own one. |
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| Edited by Cjd - 10/01/2012 3:33 pm |
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Nitro that really amazing there!I am still so confused on the one I have here mainly because it is embossed and yet lines up perfectly on each side..maybe I dont understand how the embossed stamps were printed,,if so I might understand better how the heck this happened...you certainly seem to be up on all of this type of stuff so have you ever heard or seen an embossed envelope stamp with image on both sides like the one I have Nitro? Few other questions Nitro if you dont mind~ Did they do offset printing on envelope embossments? Are offsets purposely done to stamps ever? Thank you soo very much for all of your help |
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| Edited by UFOAirMail - 10/01/2012 3:31 pm |
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I know I've seen the albinos as CJD mentioned and I think somewhere on SCF I seen simular to what you have . I'm not really firmiliar with these but worked in a print shop as an apprentice so have a decent understanding of the process and various anomolies that can happen . Never worked on an embossing type machine but if you can imagine these being done at a high rate of speed, being printed and landing one atop the other possibly in stacks of quite large numbers it makes sense if the ink is not dry. At same time you would assume that all within this stack would have simular degrees of offset depending on their position within the stack. Possible bottom 10 could be clear and dark like yours then the next 10 just slight and the remainder no problems at all. It is still a great pc and I'm sure didn't happen all the time. |
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Nitro, do you have a guess as to which is the more likely scenario? Wet papers stacked on top of each other, or a press inking the platen when no paper goes through, and the ink transferring to the back of the next paper? I imagine that the latter would give a more precise offset on an envelope, but I'm only imagining. |
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Wow guys I must say you have my quite excited here to say the least!I love the mystery here and sitting here as well racking my brain trying to imagine how it would occur,,twists my mind bigtime and I LOVE THAT! You mentioned the Albino stamp,is this a Albino Stamp?  |
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| Edited by UFOAirMail - 10/01/2012 4:11 pm |
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No, that stamp has no color on the portrait by design. That's the way it is meant to be. |
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I'm with Cjd mostly on this one. When the press cycles and an envelope blank does not get fed into the proper position, the press inks the platen. Subsequently, when an envelope blank *does* make it into the proper position, it will get inked on the back in a reverse (mirror) image, while the front gets inked with a normal stamp. In this case the front and back images line up, and the backside "offset" image will have well defined detail. When wet ink is transfered from the front of an envelope blank to the blank above, this is referred to as "setoff" and the image is not well defined. A setoff image will not necessarily align with the image on front of the envelope. Example of setoff on a "made" envelope:  |
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A missed sheet and inked platen would definatly account for the crisper darker image . Most stacked offsets like you mentioned are not this clear and should show some signs of smear or wandering or be quite a bit lighter, where yours is dead on and dark. That scenario would make it rarer as I'm sure it wasn't happening all the time. UFO- That is not an albino but rather a portrait or silhoette image used on quite a few different issues with various figures. A quick search of heligoland will show some other examples. https://goscf.com/t/11579&SearchTerms=heligoland |
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| Edited by nitrolures - 10/01/2012 4:34 pm |
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Replies: 13 / Views: 2,239 |
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