US Sc17 Possible Double Transfer

This pair is not mine but I am interested . Is it possible to tell if there is a double transfer with this scan? Also what is 2012-13 value for single used and what premium for a pair and if 1 is doubble transfer where does it go? It looks like there is doubbling in the letters of postage AGE Thanks as always

2013 SC Value:

Used Pair $550, Single $260
Used Doubble Transfer Single $290
Used On Part India Paper $1,100
Used On very Thinn Paper $1,750

Why are you all spelling "double" incorrectly?

If the bottom of the stamps only had a clear margin... they would be even better.


when you get them, cut them cleanly down the middle.


Don't pay to much I bought a VF copy for 63.00 not so long ago.

NITRO LURES --I would not I REPEAT - would NOT separate the two copies. I feel they are more valuable as a pair, especially to another collector if they are do a plate reconstruction.

Here is an extract a two page extract (page 178-177) from THE UNITED STATES POSTAGE STAMPS OF THE 19TH CENTURY Volume I, by Lester Brookman






Plate 1 was also used to re-print the 1857 Series (Sc36 & 36B) -Page 250 (below) where it gives a better description of the plate varieties (re-cutttings, double transfers, etc.) which would explain the "damaged transfer" your seeing in the upper right corner.



In any case, it appears the upper right "rosette" may also be re-cut. It's a bit hard to tell by the scan. Anyway, I would not separate the pair. I would leave them intact.

Hal

By the way, you may want to take a closer look at the cancellation on the pair. It has a shape - it may be a "Fancy Cancellation" - it almost looks like a "WATERBURY PUMPKIN" fancy cancellation.

I know you say the pair is not your and your looking at it... it may just bear closer examination. I don't know what the person is selling it for, but they may not know what they have.

Hal

I talked to the dealer and positions are 79-80R1 if that helps. I've seen nice copies for under $100 and for this pair i'd have to step up a bit higher than that but a decent amount less than a normal pair. I know Canadian Re entries quite well which is basic same as US double transfer. I am sure it is evident in the right side stamp in the upper right. For Canadian plate issues such as this the cat values jump quite a bit and having 1 normal along side has to hold a little water.
Doubling should have 2 B's since it expresses more than 1 of something-- Thats why my head types it faster than I spell it.

Knowing plate positions helps with early US issues, and the same thing holds true (about price) of having one normal issue next to a shifted transfer. However, I'm not sure what the increase would be.

And I wouldn't worry about having "fatt fingers" -- (misspellings) there are more important things to be concerned about -- especially getting bad advice from the same person who tells you to cut that pair of stamps apart -- which is a far bigger error than your "typo"!

Hal

Are you sure that is a double transfer?
From the scan, it appears to be underinking of the area under the TAG of the right stamp. The plating diagrams for 79 and 80R do not list anything around the word POSTAGE as identifiable varieties.

C.

I can't tell if the stamps are plated correctly based on the scan but the mat for 79R does show that there is a very slight DT. The white area under the TAG of 80R is typical of a dry print which you would commonly see from stamps around the edges of the sheet. I don't consider this pair a premium item at all. The cancel looks to be a large Boston PAID to me.

For the DT hunters: Double transfers don't create white areas, only extra ink in areas there shouldn't be any.

They do appear to be plated correctly. According to the plating mat that Sinclair referenced, the extra line is at the center of the bottom frameline. This is probably a result of the recutting of the framelines that is believed to have been done to all of the positions on this plate.

Sinclair summed it up quite well. Being used to "Re Entries" on Canadian issues where many times you will see additional white areas around letters as well as extra ink in places is what I was looking for. The only thing that stood out was the dry print around those letters - Looking at all frame lines I really don't see much evidence so if it is a proper plated DT it must be very minor.

Nitrolures... other than the variation of the upper right rosette, the view on my monitor does give me a clear enough image to see if this is a double transfer. You should also verify for yourself that these are positions 79 and 80R.

CHIPG -- what book are you referencing??

Thanks,
Hal

Mortimer Neinkin's The 1851-57 Twelve Cent Stamp
Published by the Collector's Club in 1964
Number 137 on Jim Lee's list: http://jameslee.com/book6.htm
C.

I was looking at the 80 being the DT not the 79 as is recorded. It certainly is not pronounced and with so many positions being minor on the 1 or 2 plates I don't believe it warrants much additional in terms of value. If I specialized in this issue I could see a bigger interest to own them . The asking price is $395 but offers considered so I believe I will pass and pursue other holes. If anyone else is interested I will provide link.