How To ID The Reliefs Of 1c 1857- "E" Relief Explained

I don't know how many didn't see this so I've renamed the topic.

A few weeks ago, I had mentioned that I would post something about the different reliefs on the 1c 1857 Type V, which is Scott #24.

The Type V stamp comes from several different plates: Plates 5, 7, 8, 9 and 10. Each plate has a right and left side, and has 10 rows of 10 stamps each on each side of the plate, so each plate has 200 different positions.

One of the keys to getting to know where the stamp may have come from on a plate, one way is to first identify the relief. The Type V plates were made using a transfer roll that had 6 reliefs-- known as A, B, C, D, E and F. The reliefs were laid down on the plate in the same alphabetical order, and then the last 4 rows on each side used only reliefs C, D, E and F.

So for each Plate of 200 stamps, there two rows of C, D, E and F relief, or 40 of each of those reliefs, but only one row each of the A and B relief stamps-- which are the top two rows on every one of the Type V stamps.

The "A" relief is the top row, and as long as the stamp is not centered badly to the top, it is very easy to recognize:



You'll see the 2 vertical lines at the top left (NW) of the stamp-- these vertical lines are on every "A" relief stamp, along with guide dots on the upper right. The position of the guide dots give us a clue as to what plate it could be. Two dots together out to the right are only from Plates 5, 7 and 8. This stamp is a beauty, from Plate 5, and is 8L5 (8th stamp from the left on the top row of the left side of Plate 5).

Also notice on the bottom of the stamp, the curved line on the bottom left under the word "ONE". The "A" relief stamp's line stops just barely past the beginning of the letter E. The line stops before the E on Reliefs C, D and E, and stops half-way across the bottom of the E on Reliefs B and F.

This stamp is a variation of Type V and is Type Va-- more complete on the right side than Type V, and Type Va only comes from Plate 5.

Hope this is helpful-- I'll post a "B" relief next time.

Ray

Wow! Beautiful stamp ray.mac! I'd love to see your collection one of these days! Thank you for the information and hard work.

ray.mac ==== very well written.
That is a nice "A" relief....

OK, we know now that "A" Relief is on the top line of the plate and the "B" Relief is on the 2nd line.

The next image is of a "B" Relief next to an "F" relief. Neither is centered well from top to bottom, so I've opted to show the difference in the TOP of the stamp, because the bottom of the stamp is the same, and is different from all of the others:



On both the "B" relief (2nd row) and the "F" relief (6th and bottom row), the curve on the bottom left, extends to the middle of the letter "E" in ONE (CENT). The curved line does not extend that far on any of the other reliefs-- so if the line ends in the middle of the "E", it is either "B" or "F".

The difference between the "B and "F" is at the top of the stamp. It's easiest to describe the "F" first-- there is damage to the relief in the top border of the oval, right in the middle of the oval directly over the "O" in the word POSTAGE. The same damage is not found on the "B" relief.

If the stamp is poorly centered and you can't see the top of the oval where the relief damage would occur, you may also be able to tell that it's "B" relief, because the ornaments in the upper left are lower on the "B" relief than they are on the "F" relief.

One other large difference is on the Type V stamp, the "B" relief stamp will have side scratches down the entire right side of the stamp. "F" relief stamps do not ever show side scratches.

******If the stamp is "B" relief, and it does not have side scratches, regardless of how complete the right side ornaments are, it must be Type Va, not Type V.

The "B" relief stamp shown is 13L8, and the "F" relief stamp has not yet been plated and is unused.

Next up will be the "E" relief.......Ray

This is great info Ray, I'm bumping it to see if you're still up for talking about the C, D or E relief. Also one question about what you covered above. How do you know the B relief is a type V with such a tight right margin?

I'm not ready to blow my monthly stamp budget on Neinken's book. I've found info on the web, but I have a few questions for anyone who wants to jump in.

Did the Va A-F relief come first? Was that relief modified to make the V relief? If so, were A-F all changed at the same time? I don't really understand how the right side of plate 5 is all(?) Va, where the left side is a really mixed bag.

I'm starting to get it, but it's a lot of info to take in.

Ray (type II)

ray.mac@ Thanks for a fantastic explanation

OK, Ray-- thanks for the heads up-- as long as there is interest, I'll continue. Easiest to start with the "E" relief.

This stamp is 41L8, and was fairly easy to plate because of the imprint on the left side of the stamp:


Similarly to the "F" relief, there is damage to the relief in row 5 and row 9. The damage can be found at the top of "Postage", right between the "s" and "t", where there is a spot where the curve isn't a curve and drops below, slightly. That is how to identify an "E" relief. Also, unlike the "A", "B" and "F", the curve at the bottom does not ever reach the beginning of the letter "E" in "ONE".

So, if the curve stops before "E", it is either "C", "D" or "E" relief.

For me, "E" reliefs can cause road blocks-- there are not ever side scratches on "E" relief, so if you can't see the top, and if there are no side scratches, and if the curve does not go beyond the "E" in "ONE", the stamp can be one of three different possibilities:

1-- and most probable, "E" relief
2-- and less probable, but definitely possible, "C" relief, Type Va
3-- same as above, possible, but not probable, "D" relief, Type Va.

Problem is that I'm always trying to find Type Va. So they're usually "E" relief "Type V" when you can't see the top of the stamp, but it's hard to tell, and you have to look at a lot more charts to try to plate the stamp.

GOOD news is, if you CAN see the top of the stamp, and if there are no side scratches, and if the curve does not reach the letter "E" at the bottom, and if it is NOT "E" relief, you definitely have a Type Va stamp......

"C" and "D" reliefs to come later.........thanks Ray

You know I've been reading with enthusiasm! This is the stuff I relish!

Ray, not get off topic, but what's going on with Ben's forehead in the top left example?

Thanks Ray, I almost missed your reply. Great info and hard to find. I'm taking notes.

As I learn more I realize I'll eventually need to reference Neinken's book. It's hard to spend $150 on it that I could spend on stamps instead. Anyone know, is that pretty much the going rate? I doubt I'd find this rummaging bookstores...

So I was just testing my skills, and think I stumbled across the "eye curl variety" on ebay. Relief A, plate 7. Definite issues though, with tear top middle...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scott-24-VE...em2ecd4119ed

I was going to bid on this one while I was at work today and I had to go away from my desk and I completely forgot about it. Disappointing!

I see what youre saying about The eye curl. I didn't see that and thought it had a chance to be a Va... nice catch!

Ray

Thanks Ray. I found it and bought it just as the auction was ending. It's in pretty sad shape, but I didn't know if or when I'd get another shot at a possible eye curl.

The eye curl stamp came yesterday. It has an unsightly 3 mm tear down the middle, but I knew that.

I had a hard time plating it because I was stuck on it being 1R7 - 3R7. I finally went back and looked at the left plate and it seems obvious to me that it's a 10L7.

It might be ugly, but as the first variety I found and plated myself it's beautiful. I'm sure I'll hang onto it, even if I find one in better shape.