Scott 64 Help

Yeah I guess your right about the rarity factor of the true claret shades Ray - Sorry for the confusion. It's been a loooong day..

I think a couple of you maybe misunderstood my post to who I thought was Bill Weiss..... :(

I've seen a lot of pigeon bloods also, and some were lavender pink, and some were carmine pink. I've got a few certed pinks, and several others that I've purchased from either Jack Daley or Mike McClung, and don't need certs....

The point is that there is no reference as to what is "pigeon blood" pink, and if it was defined as "ruby pink" which is what could have been intended by Ashbrook, some of what we think as pigeon blood today, might not be pigeon blood tomorrow, and what you've seen might not be pigeon blood.

I think that the example shown above by Breefmack is definitely pigeon blood, but it isn't the same as some of the pigeon bloods that have been shown here before (I'm talking specifically about TheSeal). Those were bluish, and might have been more on the carmine or lavender pink side.

I've been chasing, as a lot of you know, the shades for a few years now, and have read everything I've been able to find. It's fairly fascinating, and I really, really recommend that if you're interested, you look at some of the back issues of The Chronicle, where this conversation is all laid out, and of course still isn't complete.

2 other points:

• Breefmack, that's a beautiful shade and stamp!
• Nitro, on my screen, yours looks to have a brown look, which is the difference between pink and rose. Just my opinion, but doesn't look like 64B to me

Hope this helps.....Ray

I wonder, if every certified PBP that the PF has authenticated, were to be sent back in... Would they all still get good certs?

I think this is true of any valuable shade of the 61s... It's like steel blues or blackish violets or the violet and pale grey violet or the brownish yellow 5c, etc.... There's still quite the variation between "real" examples.

Somewhere I have a couple of 24c 61s with differing certs, one is a steel blue that's also certified as a gray and another is a violet that's also certified as, IIRC, a red lilac.

Ray said:
"• Breefmack, that's a beautiful shade and stamp!"

Thanks Ray! I am planning on sending it in for a cert eventually. I found that stamp on cover at the age of eight in an old civil war trunk in my parents attic and promptly soaked it off the envelope myself and put it into a nice hunk of Crystal mount in my Grossman's Jefferson album around 1957.

...so it didn't cost me anything, other than a few self-inflicted wounds and a lifetime of embarrassment!

Al

Just a quick update - FYI.

I sent the stamp we were talking about above to Bill Weiss and he has certified it as a genuine #64, Pink.

So the quest for pigeon blood pink continues...

Al

Good for you Al. Another update. That stamp I asked about was on cover and sold for $200 at a non-philatelic auction. Interesting postmark of Gettysburg, PA, July 3, 1863. Venture to say it sold for its Civil War significance rather than its philatelic.

Here you go. I believe it may have already been posted but it's relevant here.

http://www.3cent1861.com/How_Color_Works.html

Unfortunately billw2 has the same avatar as I do, which is causing confusion, so I am attempting to get mine changed - which doesn't appear to be too easy on this forum! Anyone who can tell me the secret would be much appreciated. I tried going through the "change avatar" topic, but that didn't work. Who is the proper party to notify about this?

Bill, all you have to do is leave a request and a picture of your new avatar right here. The owner of this website will get to it in due time!

Peter

Bill,

I think that there's at least a dozen of us with the same avatar.

Speaking of you and 24c stamps I have a few to send to you actually.

Bill Weiss: I too was looking for info on how to request a custom avatar. Look at the last item on the main forum page. I just stumbled across it this evening.
Added: Oops ... actually its the next to last item (Stamp Community Support) in the testing & support area. Just post "Avatar Request" as a new topic ... include a graphics file containing the desired avatar (less than 100K).

Thank you John. I have now done as you instructed and it seems to have worked just fine. God only knows how long it will take to actually get it changed! Actually Don D. had sent me private instructions how to do it too, but I bungled them the first time I tried. My fault. Not his! Anyway, hope that's taken care of so there will no longer be any confusion between the other "Bill W's" posts and mine. That being said, he is a "wise" man and his posts are always very informative!

"The point is that there is no reference as to what is "pigeon blood" pink, and if it was defined as "ruby pink" which is what could have been intended by Ashbrook, some of what we think as pigeon blood today, might not be pigeon blood tomorrow, and what you've seen might not be pigeon blood.";

Ray is absolutely correct. And I would quickly add that the 1861 3c, 5c and 24c colors are probably the most contentious in U.S. philately! Aside from my own expert service, I also do a lot for APEX, and I can honestly say that even the top expertizers sometimes disagree on what color these are! Over the years, I have seen Dick Champagne disagree with Stanley Piller who disagrees with Rich Drews, who disagrees with me! (this is an overdramatized example of course, but the point is that defining these colors is not scientific. It is abstract and subjective and different expertizers "see" colors differently sometimes, so until there is a widely-used scientific test that can define colors based on philatelic nomenclature (which in many cases is based on what one or two oldtimers decided decades ago!) folks shouldn't get too upset when they see different opinions on the same color by different viewers.

Mr. Weiss you bring up something that the engineer in me has always wondered about. Has anyone at your level (professional expertizer) ever used or experimented with colorimeters?

It would be cool if we could assign CMYK values with ranges to every classic color.

FYI, I really appreciate all of the info that you freely give on these posts and your web site. Thanks!

locobot;

I am not positive, but I think the Philatelic Foundation has at least experimented with color spectography in year's past, but I honestly have no idea now. I think also the Smithsonian is using a device which can measure the chemical content of paper and ink but I am unsure if the device is capable of distinguishing one color from another, but rather can only define the compositions.