US 1870-S 6c Lincoln With Genuine Grill?

What makes this a genuine grill? I have viewed thousands of grills online and in hand and I have never seen another like it. In fact, it looks more fake, to me, than some that were described as beyond doubt to be fakes. The only thing I see that would make it genuine is on the top right. There appears to be a "v" that would be part of a vertical ridge. Maybe magnification would reveal details not easily seen to the naked eye. What really looks fake are the hugh vertical and horizontal spaces between the ridges. Can someone explain why this is genuine when it looks so fake?

fake...incorrect shape and spacing.
Grills on that issue are usually weakly impressed.
Breaking the paper...unheard of.

Those were my thoughts exactly when I first saw this stamp. I hope more people post a comment. I am curious if anyone at all thinks this is genuine and can tell me why. I have not found a similar grill on any list of grills on US stamps.

No one is going to post that they think this is genuine.
It is FAKE! No, repeat....no chance of being genuine.
A better bet is to ask how many think it is fake....
watch how many replies it gets as fake.

Quigngt has already stated that he thinks it is a fake. I think he fully expects us all to also state that it is a fake. I assumed that quigngt asked because a usually reliable person elsewhere has claimed at some time in the past that it is genuine without explanation, and he is wondering if anybody might be able to guess why.

Either a careless mistake (as it certainly doesn't look like any genuine US grill that we normally see), or else we are all missing some critical bit of information and quigngt is just checking to see if anybody might know something. Can't hurt to ask around.

khj....based on the copied comment....???

Yes. And I haven't the slightest idea why it might be genuine. I came to the same conclusion as you, and would have readily tossed it into the fake pile.

But if somebody knows something we don't, I'm willing to read/listen.

Yes, khj, I am fishing for more information. I raised doubts about it but without explicitly saying I believe it is fake. I am wondering how such an odd ball grill can be genuine since it screams fake in several ways. The stamp is not mine, presumably not for sale and is found on a reputable stamp ID website. When I first saw it, I thought ... no way, and thus this post. It does not resemble any other known grills that I have seen. I am looking for answers such as: Who made it? What machine made the impression? Why is it so different from all other grills? How common is it? What is the most important criteria for declaring a grill to be fake, or genuine for that matter?

I had suspected it must have been a source you considered reputable.



I'm going to ask the obvious just for the record. Did you contact the website and ask them directly, and what was their reply (if any).

Please post the website....

The grill is not fake and the website follows below. It was not my intention to trick anyone with my doubts when I first posted this thread. But I did have doubts. The process of posting and the comments received motivated me more than ever to find out more about the grill. I at least found out that I was not the only one who thought this was not genuine. I had hoped some expert in grills would posted information to clear up once for all my doubts. I have my reasons why I had doubts even though this stamp grill was found on a trusted website. I have come across numerous trusted sites that had false information on a number of topics, not just stamps. As President Reagan once said "Trust but verify".

This grill had me so puzzled, bugged and intrigued that I went searching for more of them. I had searched off and on for about a year and found none. But surprisingly late yesterday, I found a two other stamps with grills of the same "fake" appearance on ebay that finally verify for me that it is genuine.

The complete stamp of which I only show the grill area is found on http://www.theswedishtiger.com/x1873a.htm ID Scott 159b. It would have been helpful if theswedish would have said what grill is on the stamp. Turns out it is a J grill. For over a year I thought a J grill would look just like all the rest of the grills except for the number of points and mm dimensions. Also, www.1847USA.com provides a bit more information on the J grill but not photos are shown. I am still hoping someone can answer my questions that I posted late last night.

Well, I have to prepare to leave town for 4 days in about 90 minutes. I may or may not be able to connect to the Internet while I am away. If not, I will be eagerly checking this post late on Monday when I return

I would have argued until I was blue in the face that this was a fake grill. Shows what I know!

Scott states the following about grilled Continental banknotes:




Interestingly, the site I often refer to for grill notes doesn't even list the J grill ... http://www.jamesdire.net/grill.html

Good topic! I'm happy to have learned this ...

Seigel power search of 159b's ...

https://www.siegelauctions.com/lot_...lledfrom=lkp

Brian

Rileysan, the jamesdire site has, from what I have know, accurate information but as you said, no mention of a J grill. That kind of missing information is what made my original doubts a bit more plausible. I would hope that some expert(s) on grills knows all this stuff but finding it all in one location is the challenge. Thanks for adding more sites to check.

Most experts believe that the "J" grill was experimental in nature and was not regularly issued. It invariably is struck so strongly that some or many of the grill points break the paper. In fact, that is not usually considered to be a fault as it might be on the earlier grills. It only was used on the 1873 and 1875 issues, and does not exist on all values, and it is scarce on the higher values it does exist on. Only a few used examples are known, which is one reason it is considered experimental in nature. After all, if it was "regularly issued" why should it be so rare, and not known postally used, on most of the values it exists on?

Thanks Bill! I definitely learned something new and interesting today. Happy to say I was wrong about what I thought about the grill!

k

And I thank you too, Bill. You have answered most of my questions and even if the unanswered ones never will be, I have learned a great deal about J grills. Now, I suppose I will start looking for one of the less expensive ones so I can own a J grill.