Attn : Bill Weiss... Re : SC # 164

Ribbing can not be seen either in watermark fluid or by looking at a stamp straight on. You must look at it with reflected cross-lighting.

"One big question that I do not see anyone talking about. I see the lines Stampcrow mentions, just next to the perfs. I also see, at least on my computer, about five more or less diagonal lines smack in the middle of the stamp, just under the cancel. One line looks like it goes almost up to the nose. Does anybody know what these are?

Amazingly, no describer has ever noted these lines you noticed! When I examined this stamp, it was obvious to me that these are light pencil strokes, yet they are not membtoned on the PFC, nor in the auction descriptions!

And by the way, if anyone ever figures out a way to photograph ribbing, that would be a great service to the hobby! There are drawimgs of what it looks like in Brookman Volume 2 and other reference books, but no-one has ever been able to figure out how to photograph it!

@disi123
I understood at the outset that you wanted to see if a rear view would give you a better look at the ribbing. I held off responding because I am looking for my copy of the most likely place you might find an image of the back. Either volume V or VI of the PF "Opinions" series has a detailed discussion of the stamp, and may show images of both sides. Can't find mine and don't recall whether it discusses "ribbing" per se, but will keep looking.

Let me expand a bit on something Bill said about looking at ribbed paper. The ribbing is not as easily seen as are laid lines, for a comparison. The procedure for studying the ribbing is not straightforward nor easy to explain. It requires the use of oblique lighting. The stamp is held at eye level against a strong but diffused lighting, and then rotated within the field of vision until the lines of ribbing come into view. How do you know that what you are looking for is being seen. Mainly, you recognize it from previous experience. Getting off on any old lines is where a lot of false "discoveries" come from. Actual pictures of ribbing on a stamp are rarely seen. Drawings are another matter.

All that having been said, the lines that stampcrow mentions** do look like good candidates for the ribbing, but I would want to see something much more convincing from the reverse before I confirmed that. Nonetheless, two of those lines are fairly visible and look like they have about the right separation for the 40 per inch standard. A third line seems to be right along the edge of the design and it too is about the right distance from the other two.

The denomination in this series that shows ribbing more often than other denoms is the two cent.

**I am not referring to the light diagonal scribbles which looked to me like pencil lines too when I first saw this stamp on display.

Your description of how to view ribbed paper is excellent! Better than mine! However, even if you could locate a photo of the back (I probably have one in my files somewhere....) you would still not be able to see the ribbing in the photo.

And the two most commonly-seen denominations are (as you stated) the 2c and 15c. If you see enough of them, you can usually even ID the ribbed papers by the color of the stamp.

Up until a few years ago, ribbed paper on the 1873 stamps were listed by Scott, but not priced. Now many/most ARE, which I regard as an excellent move by Scott!

I tried photographing ribbed paper with oblique light -- not the greatest, but this (I think) gives you an idea of what it looks like at the right angle.



BTW, I do (often, not always) see Continental ribbing when the stamp is in fluid (as very faint shadows) and sometimes (more likely, but again not always) notice it when drying. Fluid is NOT the best way to look for it (oblique light is, IMO) but I've managed to find quite a few ribbed paper Continentals while dipping to check condition...

Remarkable, explicit image...

It begs the question as to the
Scott number we're viewing...

(just for curiosity's sake)

disi123, I didn't make a note of the Scott number in the picture above, but my memory says it was a 15c Scott 163 (a denomination that is pretty common to find ribbed paper varieties on.) FWIW, the Continental ribbing will pretty much look like that regardless of denomination. I'll note that the stamp above was pretty strongly ribbed - many times it's much weaker & more difficult to see. ...and if you have the light at the wrong angle, you won't see it at all. The light in the above picture was at "top," literally laying on the table so it came almost straight across the stamp.

Oh nice! I assume that's Ken Srail posting?

That's a great pic of ribbed paper!

Bill

I should mention that I took that picture ~4 years ago for a customer who was asking what ribbed paper looked like - hence the reason I'm not sure about the Scott number. My memory isn't THAT bad (yet)...

billw2, yes, it's me :-) Just stumbled upon this forum recently.

Great pic, nonetheless...

And, considering Jay Tell's eyesight, (I know him personally-but hate to admit it- LOL)
I'm surprised he picked up on the 164 at all...

Ken, that is a terrific picture. One of the best attempts I've seen to photograph ribbed paper. It is especially accurate at the top left portion of the stamp where you can see the spacing of the ribs nicely. I've always felt that there is no good reason that ribbed paper *can't* be photographed. After all, if we can see it with our eyes, why can't the "eye" of the camera be able to see it? Several folks I know are currently working on ways to photograph it clearly, so that the whole stamp will be clear. My guess is, as you said, this is a 15c #163. I can see through the paper slightly (slightly translucent)and can see that it's a reddish color on the other side. Good job!

Ken,

Ha it's funny... I've been looking for a Hingham Bat cancel, just ordered the one on your site.

Bill (Weiss,) I now have a much better collection of lenses (and a much better camera body) than I did 4 years ago -- I think I could get an even better picture. The next time I get a nice ribbed paper example in stock I'll give it another shot... (and to the other Bill, thanks for the order!)

Ken,

You would be doing a great service to students of classic US if you can show a clear photo of ribbed paper!