Grill Or No Grill 114 ?

The existence of the Z grill isn't the conversational topic...
the topic is whether an expertizer would accept the stamp
(at all) and issue a cert... one way or the other...

I would assume (any) expertizer would accept (any stamp)
submitted for a Z grill ID and issue a positive or negative
on it... I don't see the 125 as a 'reputational risk', most
certainly when fakes are known to abound... expertizers
issue thousands of certs for fakes all the time...

Im sorry, I thought this thread was about a 114 that the OP cant find a grill on.

I believe all certified used copies of 125s have contemporary duplex cancels of the late 1870's. The bullseye, target cancel on this stamp is contemporary and consistent with an 1869-early 1870's cancel. That's not saying the cancel could not have been used on a special printing, BUT no expertizing service has or will certify any used 114 as a 125 no-grill stamp with this cancel. No used 114s will be certified as a no-grill stamp. Exception: the only certified no-grill 114(s), according to Bill Weiss (as I remember from the previous discussion) had a very large part original gum, therefore the expertizing service (don't know who) was apparently comfortable with certifying it/them. The only other no-grill 114s certified are for mint stamps with ample gum remaining on the stamp. There was a lengthy discussion on this topic regarding 114's-125s and the no-grill etc. here maybe 1-2 months ago. You can probably search it and read that discussion.

"Expertizers are in the business to make
money and accept work..."

Not true of the PF, at least in the traditional sense. The PF is an educational non-profit; they are not "in business to make money".
There are probably 10,000 or more used 114's that do not show a sign of a grill; I have seen dozens. The stamp is 150 years old, it was on an envelope plus in an album for all these years, and they were grilled in bunches so many were light to begin with, and many were grilled after gumming.

Read the article in Opinions from the Philatelic Foundation about expertizing the 1875 reissues. The dimensions of the reissue stamps are said to be slightly different because paper grain ran in the opposite direction from the original 1869 issue printings.

Clark

That's NOT a reissue. I swear guys....

Used reissues are, for the most part, EXTREMELY rare and It seems like someone finds one on here every week.

Nobody will issue a cert on an Ungrilled '69 unless the stamp has OG. Bryan Bleckwinn himself told me that the ONLY used 3c 1869 without a grill was removed from a cover with most of the original gum intact. It's really quite easy to press a grill out of a used stamp.