Rare ~ US Scott 461 Cover With Inverted Time...

Not really a cover collector,
except for very certain ones...

You've had this cover certified?

Some historical information on the addressee, Louella Way Umbenhauer (1870-1923), a gifted musician back in the day:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/f...Rid=58207640

Hi, Gator... no cert... I may or may
not send it in for one... I have not
really decided, as there's more visual
evidence that it is what it appears to
be, versus a possible fake...

If genuine, given the 1915 date, it
quite obviously cannot be anything but
461, given the 499 did not exist at that
time, not to mention that if it (was) a
fake, it very likely would still be in
somebody's collection, and would not
have been floating around on ebay by a
cover seller for sale at the lowly price
of $1.62 (+ $1.00 shipping), which is
what I paid for it, or offered on ebay
at some 'pie in the sky' (Langs-Type)
offering price...



Wt1... thank you for the link...
I'll definitely read it...

Randall, can you give me a close up scan of the CDS cancel? It looks like 1919 rather than 1915. Not sure, so would like to see a better scan of the CDS.

Sure...

Here, ya go... positively 1915...
compare the 9 and the 5...

Kind of looks like 1915. Here is what a five looked like in those cancels, more of a lift in the center. Respectfully, Gary

I'm not convinced its a "5" rather than a "9". Look at E-Bay item #360741728829 and scroll down to the scan of the back side showing the Sioux City 1915 cancel. The structure of the "9" and the "5" are completely different. On the cancel on your cover, the last digit more closely resembles the "9" rather than a "5" as shown on the cancel of the post card. If you are still convinced it's a #461, have Bill Weiss look at it.

Hi, Gar... thank you for your exhibit...

These are positively two completely different
handstamps by all comparisons... (not to mention
June to November), and could have been created
by different engravers, as well...

The November stamp is showing quite a bit of wear...
in numerous places, the "S" in SIOUX is completely
different, the year is top of one and bottom of other...

Randall

Gator... I'll say the same to you
that I said to Gary... plase see
my response to him...

The one I have here (top to bottom)
is : year, month, time...

The ones you and Gary have are
month, time, year...

The character sets are similar but
not the same... compare "ITY" in
CITY from one to the other, and the
lower portion of the "S" in SIOUX...

My take - it could be either a 5 or 9, but I am leaning towards a 9 based on some of the comparative examples.

Surefire way to determine whether 461, check for a watermark.

Rather difficult to check for a watermark
on an attached stamp... I am not aware of
any method... and I'm sure as heck not
going to soak it in fluid for a number of
reasons...

Still think the 5 is a 9 ?

The 2 characters aren't even remotely close...

This is why I think it's hard to tell. Notice that the first 9 is slanted (leaning) to the left and the last one is slightly leaning to the right. Now, orient them both vertically (as shown below on the right), and also add the 5 from the other cancel.

The two digits from your cover may be both 9's, but still can't tell.

It's tough but look at the 5 in Gar's post. Note the sharp angle of the 5 (in the upper left hand corner of it) it is crisp and distinct. This make me lean towards a '9' but its hard to say. Can anything be ruled out based upon the two hotels? The Howard cover (with the 4 stories) doesn't narrow it down enough to make the call. Anyone know anything about the Hotel Broadway?
Don