5-Cent Garfield , Some Cancel Info ?

I see a silhouette of the Virgin Mary and also what looks like Christ's face. Could this be another religious artifact not unlike the shroud of Turin?

You have every right to see what you want, so does everyone else.

Larry, I don't think this is as much about the right to see as it is about the ability to see well. Imposing imagery upon objects the way the ancients did with the zodiac has its purpose and function. For things like navigation and charting the heavens the images served as memory aids. What I see as a big dipper was seen by them as part of a great bear - and that difference doesn't matter so long as either will take me to the same set of stars. But when the contours of the image do matter, then the freedom of creative and inventive perception is limited.

Fancy cancels are not merely imaginary figures in a squiggle. True fancy cancels are intentionally designed efforts at representation of a defined figure. Their graphic character and artistic quality aids in their identification and association to a source time, place, purpose, and possibly even the person who did the work. That is a restrictive process, and constrains the freedom to invent images in the process of perception.

At the heart of stamp collecting is a little thing called taxonomy, which seeks to define and classify things in terms of their physical characteristics. In a taxonomic enterprise the ability to discriminate accurately and consistently between samples gets the most credit for a trustworthy effort at identification. That is a disciplined approach and that is something successful philatelists seek to develop. It is actually one of the attractive features of the game. Inventive freedom constrained by taxonomic precision - what a delightful and delicate balance.

The hobby is in decline and people want to turn up a nose at an enthusiastic guy's notion of what he sees to enjoying his collection and his hobby.

We see both sides but no one really has a right to tell the guy what he sees or what is there if we want to throw words around snobbery comes to mind but I get it, known traditional collections and norms would dictate not to include possible phantom images anywhere on a stamp or in stamp collecting, but for crying out loud let us not go around as if there was a stick impeding our forward walking movement it is a hobby and supposed to be fun and enjoyable to each his/her own.

If he saw JC walk on water or Scooby Doo eat a scooby snack I would defend his right to see and collect it. It is not just your hobby or mine but each ones world unto themselves, damed the traditional rules or norms ,if he is having fun that is the point, not a dogmatic, preachy, lesson, my way or the highway, look and see only what I tell you ,arrogant, egotistical, bullying and badgering repeating one selves over and over trying to make it true that there is no 2 there, when he sees it and others see it too.

Yes there are many experts here that would not include it in their books they wrote, are writing or thinking on writing but the guy that saw the two(2) might include it in his book as a unique thing he sees, his vision of his hobby. I see zero problem with that and applaud him for having fun with what he sees in his stamp collecting.

Yep I get your drift but I do not have to agree with it, so don't be mad, no two people describe a trip to Disney Land the same either but they enjoy going there just the same.

Taxonomy has a beginning some where maybe your seeing it here? I dunno I am not the stamp god. I understand stamp collectors are on the look out for new things in stamp collecting everyday and sometimes they do get added to the various catalogs, he can keep looking he may see other things and add to the 2 who knows, I say keep looking not fa git ah bout et, lol...

People need to lighten up around here....

btw I saw your essay stamp, you posted, I guess that is what it was, that you were looking for such a long time and found, glad your having fun with your hobby, I like to collect a variety of things and make displays, others might collect 2's to display, whatever keeps our interests, fills our time, as we have fun and as we all make our own way...

Please no hard feelings I enjoy your posts.

LarryBruce,

I was simply joking about seeing religious figures in the cancel. I meant it to be lighthearted not condescending, indicating that of course, everyone is free to see what they want, but what they see may not necessary have any sensible relationship to the stamp/cancel. So I am sorry if you took offense.

No one is denying your freedom to see what you want or express your opinion. I also see the "2" and the "C" as I expect everyone else does. However, we differ as to our explanation of why we are seeing those artifacts. We are merely pointing out that in this case these artifacts are not part of the cancel but probably random patterns caused by under inking, aging of the stamp, or some chemical reaction or deterioration. Of course that's our opinion, but I think born out by research that has been done in the are of fancy cancels.

I git it thanks for your post, no hard feelings here, I do see both sides cancels (norm)and phantom secret codes in cancels (not norm).

Well no hard feelings unless in my last post,like in the Matrix movie you can't see as in all the green letters on their green computer screen language,hidden in my lettering is a pretty girl, It is Roger Rabbit's girl friend! If you don't see it, I will just enjoy the view myself...btw she is wearing a red dress...LOL!

Larry, in your reply to my post you completely skipped responding to my second paragraph. Would you please take that up, since that part of what I said is what mattered the most.

As for concerns about the hobby sinking into oblivion, it is tempting to speculate about that, but I don't find wrangling over it to be very productive. If nothing about a hobby matters, then why would anyone take it up, except to fritter away time on things that don't matter? Please don't respond to that here since it is completely off topic. But I do want to see your response to my earlier second paragraph, which IS on topic.

I see Mr Potato Head with a hat and his arm over his nose

LarryBruce, I don't get what you are arguing for. The original poster asked the questions and members answered.
No one said "you can't see that".
Seems like there were very good responses. they addressed what it is that might cause what's being seen.

I don't read into anything here telling this poster what or what not to look for or collect or enjoy etc. etc. or what ever it is you are bashing folks about.

Thank you all for your help on this particular matter relating to the cancellation.µWas my pleasure to read both texts enthusiastic regarding what I see and I pose questions, it is best to have a positive mood for discussion.

Knowledge is to share.

Anyway seal is reality and should be studied, somehow like this the new world was discovered.

Vangelis

I wonder if there was something under the paper/envelope when the cancel was applied.

You said "Fancy cancels are not merely imaginary figures in a squiggle"

Not saying fancy cancels are imaginary figures in a squiggle but seen figures in fancy cancels. No one is calling the squiggle a fancy cancel, they are saying they see something in the cancel.

There may be the defined norm but their is also free will with out constraint as I said call it an abnormal phantom anomaly not normally seen and having fun with our hobby our way through our eyes and not someone looking over our shoulder to approve or disapprove with their book of rules that does not exist or anything else but the imagination can be in play to have fun and enjoy this hobby, without imagination there would be no fancy cancels at all, no one restricted them or constrained them, there is no book that says otherwise it is not rocket science or the laws of physics it is freaking stamp collecting a child can do it.

Follow the conventional all you want feel safe in your comfort zone or look outside the box live a little see and discover new things without all the technical gobbledygook jargon shackles or not it is each persons game they can play how they want. We are not writing an article for the APS or Scott catalog board of review it is a simple cancel with a squiggle that resembles a 2, maybe one description, could be others, I do not write the rules. Yall act like there is no room for anything else here, I did not agree to a stamp collectors terms of service with anybody in charge of what is or what isn't.

Some might see on onyx some might see a heart.
http://www.peachridgeglass.com/wp-c...yCancel1.jpg

maybe a V or A or Water bug or Diamond or SCFI screen to the twilight zone, pieces of pie or snow, a propeller, my favorite uncle alien, a cross, an x, a cottage window, a building block of glass,tire tracks,gingerbread man, etc.

(or give them names and forevermore supervise and direct all our subjects only these names are to be used or be at peril of the nose raised, eyes rolled in back of the head, stick impeding walking stuck where it does not belong, their road apples do not stink shun em attitude.)

Who wouldn't get your point but to keep after it to implore me or anyone to drop what they see and describe it in their own terms or way without understanding their point as well, badger until they give up and only follow your way of thinking, goes back to the having blinders on to the political trenches some are ensnared in and reaching out to make sure everyone falls into that trench and becomes ensnared in that rigidity under their stuck in the mud quicksand that they have to float on and sit still for fear if they wiggle any which way they will be sucked under and be ended and no more...

Rules written in a phantom book hidden under the guise of experience that no one can have but for arguing ones points for years and years trying to get people to follow what they believe, didn't we fight world war II for that reason to not be told what to think and do or be a certain way.

More words more logic less freedom more control a real Parent child relationship, looking down, promoting one way communication, it is my way or the highway, my house my rules.

I do not need to be tasked in my hobby, I do what I want, I talk adult to adult and tell it like it is. This hobby is so wishey washey with assumptions, and unwritten rules, made up things never written down anywhere, arguments, egos, keeping up with the Jones and the most offensive trait authoritative snobbery.

People need to remember it is supposed to be fun, is it fun when people come here and get dog piled on, badgered. I think some get off on playing the experts telling others off like they owned the hobby and theirs was the final word on the topic. It is kinda a sadistic thrill for them. One guy here really gets his rocks off on it and his followup he says sorry but no you don't see that it is this or that, oh he didn't like what he heard so he left. Who the heck does he think he is? All he is doing is running off people with his stamp collecting trolling bulling behavior, and then he says he is teaching them something, unsolicited, know it all, he can bang his head against the wall all he wants probably how he got so narrow minded. Ha LoL Tell him to go read the book Nibble Theory, he is trying to make others less of a circle, chipping away at them and trying to make himself a bigger circle but in reality he makes himself very small.

Ok nuff said where on ebay or other places is this unwritten book to buy. The one that says we can't have fun here or if we do it must be as others here say so of what they perceive the hobby is or isn't given reason there's are experienced eyes, there are rules. Dissenters deemed to have not reached their pinnacle of knowledge yet program in the ways of the dogma, must maintain control.

Is there a book how to describe Disneyland correctly, I wonder.

Restrictive process, surely you joke those guys were as creative as there are stars, any which way without any guide. There is no constrains the freedom to invent images in the process of perception. They made some kind of blob on a corn whiskey jug cork while they were bored out of their skulls waiting for someone to send a letter, some so creative they skipped the cork and made a big X , ya that is real restrictive process there showing much constraint some couldn't be bothered with an X and made a single slash mark / .

You might look at guidelines in a hobby but no one has to follow along it is their hobby they do it as they want to fritter time or on any level they want to word it, describe it see it do it etc.

I dunno dude is this good enough for you in answer to your question or do you have another task/chore for me to send me off to do/explain to your satisfaction. Enjoy...
-----------
LarryBruce, I don't get what you are arguing for. The original poster asked the questions and members answered.
No one said "you can't see that"

for you--->go read it again it was said it was just a cancel, it was said it is not there, he don't see it etc, I am answering the responses as another member here to what was said or is now what I respond to also a phantom and not seen too, ha that is funny lol.

you said-->I don't read into anything here telling this poster what or what not to look for or collect or enjoy etc. etc. or what ever it is you are bashing folks about.

no bashing it is opinion just as others dogmatically give theirs and it was said rules of fancy cancels do not include this sort of collecting or why do it etc and some saying it does not exist did you read the whole thread? I guess what I read is disappearing or thought of just as the 2 is, not there. ha lol.

BeeSee Potato head ,funny ,yawn, been there, seen that, done that, got anything original. LOL copycat heckler ha that is funny, you go dude, more power to ya...hahahaha.

oops, I do see were one member said "there are no numerals in that cancel whatsoever".

Short version:

My opinion, not yet given: as for what Vangelis is seeing, I see what you see. Now, you tell me what you make of it, and I will compare that with what I already know. But to take it deeper than that, you will need to come up with a lot more than its appearance alone. We need evidence. For now my opinion is that it is an anomaly and not intentional to the design of this cancellation. A curiosity. Proof of its significance is up to you.



Long version:

I thought I would give it a couple of days for Larry to settle down before commenting further. I can't speak for others but I can and shall speak for myself, for up to now I have not said what I think of the images being seen in this cancel (yet I have been treated as if I had condemned the person who brought up the question somehow). I can see the shapes that are being called a lowercase "c" and a numeral "2," Which appear in separate rings at the "top" of the cancel near the top of the stamp design and run parallel to the left vertical border of the stamp design, reading as "c 2" from the outer ring to the next ring.

To those who claim that the appearance of these figures is philatelically significant and meaningful, what evidence do you offer? I am not implying that you can't provide evidence, I am merely asking you to do so. Until you do, most of the list will dismiss these as inconsequential inkings and you should not be surprised at that. You don't change that by ranting and raving for what you want to see; you change it by doing the hard work of gathering evidence. Vangelis came with the right question, how could he explain/understand what he was/is seeing? Is it to be expected? The short answer is that what he is seeing is not typical for this type of cancellation. To establish it as an actual type and not a chance variant, we need to see additional examples and/or documentation of some kind that such a type was intentionally made. Without that, it is an oddity of interest to those who pursue such things, but to few others. Which leads to the question of collectability.

Larry has a valid point that a creative display of such cancellation anomalies could be done. "Things I found in my cancellations." As a personal view it would be meaningful to the person doing it, and if done well could be interesting to some others. But as an object of deep study or philatelic research this lone example is not likely to get much notice until some verifiable explanation can account for it. "Philately" is the scientific study of the production and usage of government authorized fiscal paper as stamps. Scientific study is controlled and replicable. "Stamp collecting" is much less demanding than philatelic study, since it leaves the door open for accumulating material and arranging it on the basis of surface details without delving into the specifics. Not all stamp collectors are philatelists. That is not a bad thing, unless a person has pretensions to something s/he is not. Oddly enough, the fur flies the most when a philatelist holds a stamp collector accountable for an explanation. That distinction has been discussed and fought about for decades, and that is how I see the flap that we have here.