Is Thia A Z Grill ?

stamp96... any chance you can scan
your stamp ?

Correct, there are 2 types of points on a grill. Points up and points down. A, B, & C grills are points up with vertical ridges and the rest are points down with vertical ridges, except the Z grill which is points down with horizontal ridges.

I don't know how to scan,I just have a printer,here's one more picture with an arrow where the right side of the grill ends,everyone seems to think it's a F grill but it's 13 wide ?

If your basing your conclusion by the narrow size at the top,that's not the edge,the arrow is the edge,it's way bigger than 9mm also.

Could be a fake grill. Not uncommon on the 1c, as grilled 1c stamps are at least 9x more valuable than ungrilled. Agree with everyone else that your picture isn't sufficient to determine much of anything.

It's definitely not a Z-grill though. The only 2 possibilities for this guy are "fake" or F-grill (Scott 92.)

Size is not the determining factor on a Z grill. It's totally the orientation of the ridges as other continue to mention. With or without a scanner, you should be able to determine that with magnification.

If you'd like to see a *real* Z grill,

goto this discussion...

https://goscf.com/t/38865

Why are you certain it's the real McCoy ?

Hi,not really sure who your talking too,if you go read the entire post I asked if it was a Z grill,never claimed it was,there are other grills other than the F grill that everyone seems to think it is,it's way to wide and every single site I found on the internet said "close to 9MM wide",this is way way bigger than 9MM,I just simply asked cause you guys are knowledgeable and trying to learn Sir but no one seems to actually believe what I say,probably because I'm new to this but I can work the stamp gauge correctly.

stamp96... I believe stallzer is talking to me...

For now, reading the other discussion and Bill Weiss'
commentary are all that's required in the "proof"
department, until Mr. Weiss either issues a positive
cert on it, or he does not...

As a footnote... stallzer posted the following image...

stamp96, is it possible you are adding an extra row to the width of the grill? I look at the post in which you added lines to show the width of the grill, I don't see a row where you have the line on the right side.

Hi,gotta go to bed,work early.

I'm positive it's 13 squares wide,I'm sorry for the bad pictures,I have an old camera and it won't take close-ups.I sent it to APS for them to look at,I learned quickly here that's it's almost to be a Z grill but going by the websites I found(what they say not me)a F grill is 11-12 and 9MM,this is 13 and way bigger than 9MM.I know you guys here combined have a 1000 years experience but I don't think it's the F grill,APS will figure it out,learned lots about grills though.

It is good that you sent it to APS, because that means it will almost certainly be sent to me, as I expertize nearly all of the grilled stamps submitted to APEX, and have for many years. But I will be stunned if this grill (if genuine) is anything other than an "F" grill, just like everyone here is saying it is..........

Excellent, keep us posted.

Edit: sorry, my response was for stamp96. Mr Weiss and I were posting at the same time.

The grill remains an F grill. The aspect ratio is that of an F grill. An E grill would normally have 14 vertical rows and be 16 to 17 rows tall. If it has a horizontal partial row, it must be an E grill. A Z grill will be 18 rows high (not 17 as incorrectly reported in older Scott catalogs) and either 14 complete rows wide or 13 rows wide with one or two vertical partial rows. An E grill will never have a vertical partial row. According to Richard Drews, the grilling cylinder was scored with a screw machine around the cylinder and scored at right angles. The final grill pattern was created by burnishing off unwanted points. The grilling surface was some type of hard leather surface with enough flexibility to allow embossing. Partial rows occurred because of the drift of the screw machine around the cylinder. Large blocks of grilled stamps will reveal the drifting pattern of partial rows.

Clark

Okay Clark, you may be just the man to help me with a fuzzy spot in my education. I just spent a good bit of time today checking the big references on grills, and not one of them went into the fine point of counting grill points and dealing with the "half row." I have always held that when counting points you cannot count partial rows, and I think that Rich Drews says that too (I'll check with him). But since you brought them up, can we look at them for a moment?


the grill on the left I count as 12x16 with partial rows at top and bottom. Hence an F grill.

the grill on the right I count as 14x16 with partial rows at top and bottom. Hence and E grill.




How do you count them?

For those not familiar with the idea of half rows, here are some super closeups of the bottom few rows of these two grills. Notice how the bottom most row is not like the rest. Counting these might throw you off.