Scott 477 (I Think I See A Watermark)

Hi all. I have been reading this forum for some months now and now I have occasion for my first post (to ask for some help). I just bought a #477 Franklin and when I went to check for a watermark...well I'm not sure but it looks like there might be an "S" in the lower right-hand corner. It is not a well defined thin line but rather thick so I'm not sure. Would very much appreciate someones experienced eye.
Thanks so much
Bruce

Hi, Bruce... well, if there's a watermark, that would
make your stamp a 440... it's difficult to tell by
your photo... if you could brighten it up a bit and
re-post it, a better analysis could be made...

Randall

It appears that there is an "S" in the bottom right quadrant, and part of a "P" (or possibly a "U") in the top left quadrant. There also appears to be a large thin at the top.

Thank you for responding. Here is a new pic of the back. I manipulated levels in PSE to make the black a higher contrast. Keep in mind, all of the black smudges you see are not visible when the stamp is dry. The "S" I see could be a coincidence or it is truly a watermark. I just don't know if they can look that thick and smudgy.

Tough to tell... the black smudges do not coincide
with the cancellation on the front... perhaps if you
could re-post again using an enlarged version as you
did with your first posting, it might be a bit clearer
to determine 440 from 477...

Thanks Randall,
Here's a little larger pic. From your experience, can the SLW look a bit disjointed, thick and smudgy? Or might this be natural, random markings of this particular stamp?
Yours and others opinions are much appreciated. My experience with watermarks is limited but growing.

Of course, it's hard to tell from the scan, but it appears to me not to be an "S" single line watermark, since it is very thick and kind of smudgy. When the paper dries from the watermark fluid, do the blackish smudges dry quicker? If so, all of the marks, including the apparent "S" may be thin spots.

BTW, if it IS an "S" watermark, the top marks can't be another letter, since the lettering matrix is wider, and wouldn't be located there.

Can you post a scan without the watermark fluid, just dry? Can you post a picture taken at an angle with respect to a light source to see what reflects off of the backside?

The "S" seems way too thick for a wmk 190. Plus, it almost looks like another "S" just above it. It also doesn't look right for a wmk 191. The horizontal purple smudges at the top left of the back make me think that this is a transfer from some paper that it was stuck onto long ago. I lean towards No wmk. Just my thoughts.

Might be valuable to see the back of the stamp dry.

Here is the back of the stamp dry. As revcollector noted, there is a thin at the very top. Apart from that, the rest of the stamp is sound. I originally posted this with a limited knowledge of SLWs. My stamp seems to have such a natural looking "S" lower right but the thickness and smudgyness seem unnatural. Thank you for your opinions. For me, this was a pricy stamp. I want to be sure I got the right one.

This is indeed one of the more difficult ones...

Based upon the multiple images, there does not
appear to be conclusive evidence which would
demonstrate the existence of a clear watermark,
so, based upon the above, I would definitely
lean towards 477, but not totally discount the
possibility of 440...

There have been many confirming watermark ID's
made by expert examination, with only fragments
of WM characters made on the edges of stamps,
which, in this case, could be a possibility...

The combination of the offset and what appear to be pencil marks seem to be part of what makes it appear to be smudgy, I think it is almost certainly watermarked.

Bruce... here's what you need to do...

Purchase a soft kneaded eraser... you need
to remove the pencil mark...

Looking at the reverse of your stamp as you
have positioned it in your photo, hold it
firmly on the left with your left hand index
finger, and in s singular direction motion
ONLY - from center to edge, using extremely
light pressure, in a light 'brushing' motion,
remove the pencil mark(s).

Repeat the process as many times as you need
to, to remove it all.

Then re-soak in fluid and take a new photo
using strong light, but don't use your camera's
flash...

I tend to agree with revcollector on this one.

Hi guys...Is this where the letter "P' is that you are looking at...Or am I off track...Robert

Sorry....off track.
That is not what a watermark looks like.

My opinion.....based on top photo in solution.

NO WATERMARK....perf 10....#477