64/64B ID Help

Hello everyone, I was going through a bunch of stuff yesterday and found these in a box that I forgot I had. Before I spend the time and money sending these out to Bill Weiss for cert's can anyone help me ID these?

Top left was labeled 64B the middle was labeled 64 and top right 64B.The cover below is labeled 64. Can anyone make out from my scans if they are anything or just a bunch of 65's?

Thanks in advance.

Because of the differences between how each monitor displayes colors and how we each percieve colors, it's very difficult to say with any certainity if the stamp on the left is rose pink or pink. Even the background against which we see the stamp will effect our perception of its color. That said, to me, the stamp on the left and the stamp on piece on the right look like the same shade of pink to me, and the center stamp appears the same shade as the on cover stamp.

My vote is a bunch of 65's. The Pink's are unmistakable. Not one I own but this is a certified 64.

I am adding these images for reference from the Swedish Tiger website: http://www.theswedishtiger.com/


64



64B

Lol Stallzer. Great minds think alike.

Thanks guys for the replies, I think the top left has the best shot at a 64B as it is the pinkest of them all. I didn't do any of the original labeling, old dealer writings on backs... I am more than positive I got them all really cheap not having certs, most likely only a couple dollars more than a 65. Thanks again for the help.

Bigger Scan:

For fun, I made this comparison. Your stamp is the middle one.

smauggie Thanks for doing that... in your scan it looks way off, in person it does look pinky. I may send it off to Bill Weiss after the holidays for an ID just for the fun of it. Thanks

Sav,
The pinks were in the very first printings only, and only in August of 1861, so the stamp dated '63 may be pinkish, but you'd never get a cert that says "pink" of any kind.

The one in question is dated March 30, so the earliest it could be is 3/30/1862, and it's doubtful any pinks were around by then-- could be, but pink that late is rare.

Hope this helps, Ray

ray.mac Thanks for the info you make some very good points.

ray.mac, great point. Strong evidence that it's most likely not a 64.

I set the black and white levels:



Here's the adjusted image put into the comparison:

Smauggie, the reference copies on Kirby's site for these 2 shades are in my opinion, horrid. The texture alone makes them difficult to use or to try to make any comparison. I've got hundreds of 3c 1861s and have yet to see anything that looks like those. I don't know what type of light he used in those images but they really aren't helpful and shouldn't be used at all to determine pink or rose pink. And of all of the pinks I have and rose pinks, no 2 look alike so it's always going to be a tough stamp to id. Best is always on cover with a year date of 1861. If it's dated 1861 and it looks pink, it might be.

There are always inexpensive rose pinks on ebay that can be bought as a reference- as an example, I bought another 64b this week on cover with a PF cert for $29. If one really wants a pink or rose pink they can be had and reasonably-- that is if you're ok with a reference copy. And in anything from that classic period, if you'll only accept perfection you'll pay for that too.....hope this helps, Ray

To be honest Ray, I kind of wondered about the strange intensity of the colors. I heard or read somewhere that these shades tended to lose their intensity if not properly cared for, and I wonder what role that plays in trying to identify them. I had never thought of getting a reference copy, but that makes sense.

ray.mac, I agree that the Swedish Tiger site's images of color variations for this issue are not representative of true coloration by a large margin.

Your suggestion of purchasing a 64b is absolutely helpful. Unfortunately most that question if their stamp is as 64 or 65 will not be able to justify the expenditure. There are many collectors who do not focus on this series enough to warrant the cost.

http://www.3cent1861.com/The__August__Shades.html is a great reference but isn't definitive due to the inadequacies of non-color corrected computing equipment.

This highlights the exact role of expertizers and the costs of their services. They are able to make color comparisons using physical examples in the physical presence of suspect stamps.

Personally, I encourage the posting and discussion of colors for the purpose of determining if a stamp should be submitted for further expert analysis.

Before doing so, the submitter should adjust the color levels or make it clear that they need help to do so. All submissions should be a scan of at least 600 dpi.

As for smauggie's suspect, I personally think that it is too much of a rose color to be a 64.

I am curious to hear the opinions of the expertizers that frequent this board for what they consider worthy of expertization submission.