Possible US 83 (C Grill)

This is a photo of a stamp I evaluated for the Oregon Stamp Society this past Saturday. It was in a US collection that belonged to a family who inherited the collection and didn't know what to do with it. The family consiged the collection to OSS and I separated this stamp from the album so I could highlight the grill and photograph it.

The grill measures 17 x 21 and looks legit to me.

I need to re-state this. That is not a measurement, it is the number of points I counted (columns x rows) - Brian

I wanted to hear from SCF members before we spend the money to have it certified - specifically Bill Weiss. The club has never sent anything off for certification, by I think I convinced the our president that sending it to Bill is the right thing to do if SCF members agree with me.

Opinions?

Brian

Got it figured out for you Rileysan...haha




joking aside my friend, hope you have a real good stamp there.

That may actually be a better response than the affirmation I was looking for! Thanks for making me laugh!

I'd send it to Bill to see what he says.
One note. Taking images of stamp at an angle often makes IDing the stamp more difficult. Ideally, use a flat bed scanner or position the camera so that the stamp is square. I realize that trying to get things like grills to stand out or the condition of gum means an angle shot but the addition of a 'square' shot helps avoid confusion.
Don

I totally agree. In this case, I just made do with what I carried to the clubhouse - my camera. Hopefully it is clear enough to give me a go/no-go for certification.

Brian

Your image isn't that good but it looks to me like sending it in for at least a $5 ID is a no-brainer. If it turns out to be an 83 you could upgrade to nice color cert.

A specialist could potentially give input based on the shade of the stamp...

The best I could do with the point count was 17-18x21. Let me second Don's comment against shooting off axis, but with one revision. Hold the camera so the stamp is square in the shot - that you know. But if you want a grill or some other feature in relief to stand out, use a light that you can aim and let it angle across the object. When you are in a situation when you know or suspect you might be needing to take a picture of a stamp like this, carry along a portable light source, even an LED penlight, so you can control the direction the light falls. Also, bracket like heck, but not for exposure. Bracket with the light held in at least two directions at 90 degrees to one another. The shapes of grill points have direction too, so the appearance of the grill will differ depending on the direction the light across the grill is coming from.

Was that clear enough to follow?

I would send it in for certification; this is plausible enough and a possible 83 is worth authentication to know for sure.

And let me revise essayk's revision :) The more you can do to eliminate other sources of light other than the side-light, the better a grill or even small stamp defects will stand out.

A "C" grill is a male grill (which means the points should stand up off the paper on the FRONT of the stamp. A "C" grill also has 17 vertical rows. But if those two elements still leave you undecided whether you have a "C", by all means, send it along. Don's and Sinclair's (and others) advice is (as usual!) solid. If it *is* a "C" you should have a cert. saying so. It will definitely increase the resale value. And if not, well then it was only $5. (+ return shipping desired).

Yes, what Sinclair said. I noticed the reflections of those overhead fluorescent fixtures too. Ouch.

I am disappointed to report that this came back as a fake. Our club (Oregon Stamp Society) went off my recommendation and spent the $$ for the cert (difficult to spare the $$ these days). I hate being wrong, but even worse is being wrong and not learning anything from it. What did I miss, Bill?

Brian

Brian,

For the $5. ID service I generally don't make a lot of notes like I would for full service. The $5. ID was never intended to be anything but a simple, or reasonably simple, ID. In the case of a fake grill, that's about all the info you would normally get from me, but because of your valuable presence here, I am happy to try to clarify - to the extent I can recall because sure enough, I have no note on this other than "fake "C" grill". But my best guess is that the points on this grill were the wroing orientation, meaning that on a genuine "C grill, the points stand out on the face side of the stamp (a "male" grill). I'm guessing your grill did not. It was likely either totally flat on the front surface or the points might bave stood up on the back side (a "female" grill). So you tell me - which is it?

I wasn't aware that Eric only paid for the $5 ID service. In his email, he made a comment about the cost (but didn't directly state what he paid for) so I apologize for jumping to any conclusions. As to your question - which direction are the grill points? Doesn't the original photo show it? The points do not show up on the back of the stamp using the graphite method - only the outline of the grill. Unless I'm mistaken, isn't that a sure sign that the grill is "points up"?

Thanks!

Brian

Brian,

I understand that the club is trying to do the cert thing on the cheap. And the prospect of a negative outcome is going to make it harder to get them to take it further. And your own credibility may be a bit challenged too since you suggested it. Let us help you.

Why don't you give us a view of the front of the stamp that also shows the grill well? Then we can all see if the points show as they should for a "C" grill. At present we only have the back to go on, and in that view the grill looks well defined but flat. That is as one would expect from a "C" grill, but could be due to other reasons too. So a pic of the reverse is not enough. That said, I also recall that I had a bit of trouble counting the points, so another view of the reverse wouldn't hurt. If you do post the front, and maybe another view of the back, use off axis lighting (low and to one side) so the grill on both sides is seen in relief.

No reason to put this on Bill alone.