1861 24c Washington Scott 70-D Rare Pale Grey Violet

I was looking at these stamps on ebay and was wondering which if any is a 70d? Opinions please.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/70d-PALE-GR...em2c6c65b6e4

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pale-Grey-V...em3f477b2286

http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Scott-70...em2c76c7d275

whew I certainly wouldn't know. For myself, I can't imagine determining the color of these with an online picture. I probably wouldn't spend that kind of money, on a color determined stamp, without a certificate from an expert.

I think any stamp in that price range needs a certificate. NO EXCEPTIONS!

Don't know that any of them are a70d although the one from Bills looks the closest. I would never recommend buying a 70d that was not already previously certified by a recognized authority. Makes you wonder why someone would offer one for sale without a cert.

'Makes you wonder why someone would offer one for sale without a cert".

You know why.
None of these are sellers I would buy a stamp like this from without a current cert.

Definitely needs a cert. The expertizer himself may be wrong, but anyone who sees the cert is forced to believe that the expertizer thought he was right. That's all a certified stamp needs in our world. If the cert says it is 70d, that's the stamp it is, even if it isn't. I say this because I'm rambling again, and colors change for one reason or another over 150 years or so. So the stamp printed then may have been violet, but may look more like pale gray violet now, for e.g. Either way, in your example, if it was originally 70c, but now looks like 70d, you still have a stamp worth 5 figures (CAT Value). But to convince any wise buyer to buy it, for that kind of money, you need a cert.


-IBFS

I am using an old catalogue and it shows a 70d at $3,000. Has this C.V. gone up to 5 figures?

Mental error on my part. Those 5 figure prices were for unused 70d's. All those shown in the links were used. The used value of 70d is still $3000. as of the 2013 catalog. Some mental error eh? Telling someone their stamp is 10 times what it's worth. huh.


-IBFS

Amen!

There's basically two ways to buy one of these...

1) in person, if you're capable of actually identifying one correctly (few people can).

2) from a trusted seller with either a recent cert or with the right of getting a cert. Period.

You really can't tell these apart from a scan as computers just can't reliably reproduce the true color of a stamp. The one thing you can do is to look at the paper in person; hold it up to the light and you'll see the design CLEARLY through the paper, you should be able to easily discern the line between Washington's lips.

This, however, takes practice and you really should have a reference copy or two to judge paper thickness.

One advantage is that you'll occasionally find a 70d labeled as a 78/78a/78b.

Well, Langs is one of the dealers. I've complained about his prices, but I thought he was an otherwise respectable dealer. On a stamp this costly, he allows 120 days for you to get a cert (you have to notify that you are doing this at the time of purchase) and will give you a free refund including the cost of the cert if it comes back negative. Short of being offered with a cert, that is pretty much the next best thing you could ask for, isn't it?

With the color on purple/violet stamps of this era being so notoriously fugitive I almost think a chemical pigment analysis is required to define a given shade more than 150 years later. Short of this, expert certification is definitely called for.

Note on Bill Langs: I agree that some of his prices are inexplicably high, but I've always found him to be receptive to reasonable offers.

Here is an example of the 70d that I found on Siegel.

The 2nd is from our old friend Coin watcher who is notorious for mid-identifying and false listings. He is just trolling for suckers.

Oh god that idiot.

Funny thing is, if that was even a real 70d it would be worth... hmm... $7-800 if sound?