Re : Update... 1847usa.com

This seems to be the central topic for posting comments on 1847usa. So I'll ask this here. Is all the information on 1847usa.com "public domain"? If so, could Allen's information be collected from the site by him, put into book form and published?

The electronic age is wonderful. Really. But for one reason or another, what we have today might not necessarily be there forever.

When it comes to books, we have to admit, once the author moves on, the book is still there for the use of those who own it and there for those who want to buy it in the future if it stays in print. But I admit I don't know all the costs and other things required to publish a book.

To me, this seems to resolve all problems.

1. No more maintenance of a website and it's domain.
2. The dire need for the information in the site's content will be available.
3. Mr. Allen, the keeper of the site will have some financial rewards from his long time effort.
4. Contribution would not be needed, except perhaps to aid in getting the book published.

And no. Amos Publishing should not be the publisher. They should not be entired to a penny from this book. In fact they should be forced to buy it themselves. (Twice!)

The only problem...Scott numbers. Someone would have to figure a way around that. Because Scott claims the right to "1...2...3...4..." being their property by calling it a "numbering system". If our contributions went anywhere, it would be to rip this claim from their grasp once and for all.

I know we've been thorough all the copyright law contingencies in another topic. Let's please not repeat this. But I'm still not convinced that Amos could successfully prevent this from happening in the end.

...Now, would everyone please tear this post apart bit by bit and explain to me why this couldn't happen. And if "legal talk" is used, please word it at fourth grade level so I can understand it.


-IBFS

IBFS,
Publishing as a PDF would be simple and straight forward; I estimate that if all the files from the site were available it would take about 20-30 man-hours to convert the site to a searchable, indexed PDF book. (Not counting if we wanted to rewrite some of the content, assumes we just port everything 'as is'.)

If the PDF was then offered for free, I highly doubt there would be any legal push back from anyone. Doing this would then almost guarantee that the information in the site would live on for perpetuity. If you can get the permission to do this, I am willing to put in the 20-30 hours to make it happen. (I have a fair amount of experience in digitizing books into PDF books.)
Don

I wouldn't know how to get the permission. I think that would best be handled by Bill Weiss who seems to have the contact availability. A PDF format is a really good idea. My only concern would be the quality of the images if someone wanted to print it out on paper.


-IBFS

While this is off-topc, it's a quick response; the best place to learn about Franklin-Washingtons is "The Experts Book" by Paul Schmid. Unfortunately, the book is long out of print and sells for $150.+ (when it can be found) on ebay or Amazon, but there is a CD of it available for under $50. Good luck.

I saw this only after I posted my last reply about the Schmid CD, so I apologize, but this is a facinating proposal. Let me contact Bob and run it by him. But without revealing a whole lot about the possible takeover of the site, my distinct impression is that the problem really isn't Bob, it's Amos Press. But there might be developements in the next week or two.

"If the PDF was then offered for free, I highly doubt there would be any legal push back from anyone"

I'm far from sure how handing out something for free that uses Scott's catalog numbers without their permission would fly.

eyeonwall,
Obviously some of this depends on any existing legal understandings (or lack of) that already exist between the site's owner and Amos. For example, if he already received a cease and desist or some other saber rattling letter from Amos, then yes we would need to hammer something out with them before moving forward.

If there has been no legal communications then I would simply contact Amos and ask their permission. Since it would be a non-commercial use I assume Amos would only ask for the their copyright notice be given and perhaps add a link in the PDF to their web site. That would certainly be fair.

So first order of business is to find out what, if any, communications have already taken place.
Don

Don... I totally agree with your analysis and approach... however
I must interject that if you encounter any difficulty with obtaining
any necessary permissions or encounter any roadblocks with Amos,
I most assure you that I, personally, have no fear of them, nor even
recognize their rights to the numbering system, and I would supply
you with the logon and password to our site (here) to clone the 1847
site, and make it accessible to everyone... as, I have stated prior,
I have absolutely no fear of Amos, and I most assure you and everyone
else reading this that I am un-suable... and, 1847usa will live on
to perpetuity, whether it has Amos' blessings or not...

I knew it...I knew it...I knew it...


-IBFS

Scott has always jealously protected its numbering system. In my memory, the last big test was when they sued Krause Publications (Minkus) over the use of Scott numbers. To my knowledge, the cases have never been adjudicated by a court. In all cases they've been settled before the trial ended. In my opinion, the idea that Amos will grant free use of their property, even to a non-profit, is preposterous. Actually, the problem lies in that if they make an exception, then their ability to defend their copyright is severely limited.

As they should, from the perspective of running their (for-profit) business. It's all they've got, literally. If those numbers and their numbering system weren't trademarked/copyrighted and protected vigilantly, what's to stop someone from developing an alternative catalog using the same numbers? If anyone can use the numbers to print album pages, who would need to buy Scott's pages? Losing control of the numbers wouldn't cause them to go under overnight, but the cumulative impact to them over time would be huge. From their perspective, they probably think they need to err on the side of caution when protecting their trademarks and copyrights. Over the years their numbering system has become the de facto standard in North America and it's also become their de facto only real asset. They should be protecting that asset every bit as much as most of us protect our homes.

I was wondering what had happened to 1847. I used it extensively in the past and occasionally to this day. I am definitely subscribing to this post and will help as I can including donations.

Any update on this?

It is now hosted in the stampsmarter.com domain. The link follows.

http://www.stampsmarter.com/1847usa/index.htm

Unnecessary reply. Cj posted as I was writing.