3 1851 Scott #20? Franklins (Joined)! Keep Them On Or Take Off Cover?

Recently, I acquired a small lot of 19th Century issues and while I was going through them I found this cover with three 1851 Scott #20? Type II on it. (Note: the envelope is marked "Type II #20" in pencil on the reverse side) They seem to be #20's to me. All three stamps are joined and based on the nature of the damage displayed by the third stamp, I would guess that it was caused by someone haphazardly removing the 4th stamp from the block. Definitely not faultless, but still . . . ! My question is: If they are #20's, what might the value of the cover be? Also, might it be better, if I left them on or took tham off cover?

May I ask why you think they are all Type II ? Can you provide close up 1200 dpi scans of the individual stamps ?

Lots of issues here. All three stamps have faults including tears and gum toning. The cover is soiled, stained and crumpled or wrinkled. The CDS is indistinct. Absent data that the addressee was historically important, I would guess, and you asked for a guess, that this is a $20 to $40 item with the higher end needing some luck.

Mizar, instead of editing your original post every time, please continue the thread. All new visitors to this post will never know the original intent / question / scans that were here first.

No one answered your last part of the question yet. It is, in my opinion, always better to keep an older letter intact. Most importantly because the stamps are faulty and won't bring much if you remove them, but even so the cover is by far more interesting.
Newtown must have been an extremely small town when this letter was mailed; I like the addition of the county name to the address!

Peter

My personal preference is that I would bid more for this intact, on cover.

I agree with Peter that covers are more interesting.

Just glancing at the cover quickly, I was wondering where King & Queen (City) Virginia was located, and who this Newton person was.
Glad I read your comment Peter. Working Graveyard shifts do a # on my brain....

Mizar, on the top stamp, I think I can see that the bottom right scroll is complete. I can't see the left one well enough. If they're both complete, it's a type I, #18, not a type II.

If you can provide a better scan, as Stallzer mentioned before, we can maybe help....Thanks, Ray

Ray, that's an interesting observation. It wouldn't be bad, if it were true. I won't be able to rescan them until tomorrow. I'll see what I can do about increasing the dpi, but I'll be restricted by the 200k size of the scan they allow us to upload. Hopefully, I'll be able to give you a sharper view of the stamps. Thanks.

King and Queen County is actually a County in Virginia, founded in 1691, not a city. It's still where it's always been, over on the eastern central side.

Here is a better view of the top stamp of the three. Does anyone have an idea as to the "type" of 1851 Franklin it is? Type I, Ib, Ic, II, III, etc. I'm still looking to identify it's Scott number! Thanks!

Maybe someone with better eyes than me can see it but for me the scan does not show enough detail. If you scan it at 1200 dpi and crop it to the perf edges you should be able to get something like this size.

Okay, how's this? Any idea which type it is? Which Scott number?

Probably Type-II. Will probably need to be plated to be sure since so much of the top is missing.

Nice job with the scan Mizar. I'm leaning towards type II. It also appears as if there is a tear going from his throat to the bottom of the stamp. I wouldn't consider removing them from the cover, chances are good you'll damage the stamps.

Thanks, Stallzer. I had to experiment a bit, but there it is. I understand about the damage that would probably occur if I removed the stamps and I agree with your advice. The concensus, although small right now, seems to favor Type II, but we'll see what happens. I thank you and everyone for your input; it's very helpful.

Plating down to the exact position is not necessary with these stamps. They are all Type II, Scott #20. Except for identification reasons, usually the only time there is any benefit to removing stamps from covers is when you have the value of a nice stamp being dragged down by a not so nice cover. In this case, I don't see an upside to removing the stamps (which are in very poor condition) from the cover.