#88 Or #85 Grill Problem

hallo this is the cover, stamp perf not good



how to count the grill points from front? inside the points up?

That is a lovely cover and nicely colored stamp despite short perfs and non-perfect centering.

I am horrible at reading cursive, but maybe this is the town of the addressee: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubba...assachusetts

For a small grill that doesn't appear to be a "Z" or a "C" or "D", then I would not worry about an exact stamp identification.

If you feel that you have to know, then I second essayk's advice to have a professional lift it off of the cover.

I cannot see the grill clearly enough from your scan, so you will have to decide if it is a common #88/#94 or not. The only reason why I would have the stamp removed for identification is if it could be a very valuable grill. The grill appears small and seems to have vertical point ridges, so I can only make an educated guess that it is an #88 or #94.

That's an E grill, Scott #88. I clearly see 14 x 16 grill points.

My God, it looks like someone has written in pencil over the postmark!

correct @themachine99 14x17 points



@KGB I have not written in pencil over the postmark

I know, Dittrich. I assume a buyer before you did the writing.

Well that destroys most of the desirability of the cover! Rats!

I would not be too quick to draw conclusions about who or when the cancellation was "enhanced" in pencil. For all we know Mrs. Bennett, the recipient, gave the envelop to one of her children to play with in 1868, and they did the alterations at the time. It does intrude, but the overall appearance of the cover is better than average, and I would not destroy it. The stamp does well to stay on it, especially since a type E grill on cover in which all the grill points are viewable from the front is a nice thing to have. They don't often come that way. I'll buy it from you if it comes to that.

As for the point count: in the picture I can only count 16 rows of points, but perhaps the 17th row would show if rotated in the light a bit. I would not add anything to the stamp to make the grill more visible. It's color is exceptionally pleasing on this envelope. As for the "perfs not being good," your reference to centering I believe, I have seen much worse. Overall, this is not a bad item, if you can live with a little pencil work.

@StampCollector1960, don't sweat it! the method is very good!



@essayk, I to count 17?

I don't think so Dittrich.
I counted up from the bottom. What I think you are calling the 17th row (at top) is a row of half points. These are rather common on E-grills, and have been discussed on the list before. The "half row" on this one has a horizontal orientation, against the vertical orientation of most of the other point. That is also typical for the "half rows." However, in the counting of rows of points, the half rows, which may occur at top or bottom, or both, are not included in the count.

[Edit: Still, there is a lot of space between your row 16 and the top edge of the grill. But the points up there are not well formed as they are below. I would probably have to see it in hand to be sure.]

Nonetheless, I love the grill impression on this stamp!


[Second edit:



A correction here. I did not advise lifting this stamp, nor do I feel it is necessary. HisDNA is right though, that if it had to be lifted I would recommend having a pro do it.

>I counted up from the bottom
I to count in the figurative sense the points auf back side (pressed pocket), the grill pressed from front?

I can show top and bottom full x (top full x under press line grill, show top right)

to be misguided?

Sorry I confused you.

When I said "up from the bottom" I meant from the bottom of the array of points toward the top of the design. I was not referring to the direction in which the points project. You are correct in observing that in this grill the points protrude down from the obverse into the reverse, and that the catalog refers to this as "points down."

But now that you point it out I do see a couple of X marks at the right end of that top row, so I would agree that there appear to be 17 rows.

By the way, let me compliment you on your excellent photography. I don't think these are just simple scans. If this is camera work, then you have some skill in macrophotography and its special requirements for lighting. May I ask what equipment you are using for that? (Lights, as well as camera and lens.)

>By the way, let me compliment you on your excellent photography
thanks @essayk

>May I ask what equipment you are using for that?
LED pocket lamp und handy camera samsung s3 mini to apply up the book (height/size 4 cm)

to try your self, it is fantastic easy

In regard to the pencil-enhanced CDS...
Both my great-grandmother and grandmother routinely did this as part of docketing their mail. I probably have 3-4 dozen examples dating from 1870s through 1930s on family correspondences. I cannot comment on commonality of the practice, but having grown up seeing this done and having examples in my collection, I do not consider it to be a defect.

yes great pics dittrich

To all, fyi but if you ever think you may be looking at one of the "experimental grills"' just a heads up..they only exist in the dull rose shade. So the example by the original poster could not be a 85 D grill because it is a bright shade, and I'd only be guessing but there is a lot of red in the stamp shown. Could only be an E or F grill...hope this is helpful..Ray