#83 (Grill). Help With The Forensics On This?

Generally valuable and rare stamp-- the #83 3c Rose C grill- the grill here measures correctly (13x16mm), but let you judge the points.

This is attractive rare stamp if it is identified correctly, yet has many issues surrounding it that makes me think its generally of little value. The stamp has a beautiful impression, clean and bright.

Any analysis on perforations, grill, cancel, etc. is much appreciated.
Is it properly identified. Is it fake?

It has at least one fault--There is a very tiny thin in middle of stamp.

Thanks ahead of time

Grill looks suspect to me.
Don

I agree with 51.

Can you guys elaborate what makes the grill look suspicious so less experienced (such as me) can understand?
Much appreciated. How about perfs?

I do agree with your opinion on grill! Looks strange

The first think that's suspect is the outline around the grill. The genuine C grill was produced by forcing the paper into pyramidal recesses in a plate of some sort. Fake grills are often crafted on a die that's no bigger than the grill itself, leaving an outline impression around the grill as this one has.

The second red flag is that the cancellation is not interrupted by the grill, which should happen when the grill is applied before the cancel.

Other things inconsistent with an 1867-68 timeline are the shade and the clean-cut perforations.

I wouldn't buy it if offered to me.

I agree w/ others who think the grill is fake.

I agree. Odd to see outline around grill like that. Can't see points on front cancel.
Forgery/ fake
Thanks for help

As in the other post currently thinking that it is a C Grill, the color of the stamp is all wrong to be a C Grill. The experimental grills are only found in the dull rose shade. Cannot tell you what shade this is but it's not dull rose..
Sorry, Ray

Raymac... Interesting you brought up color. I checked color of 83 with numerous certified copies. I found numerous examples of 83 that seem to range from a dull rose to deeper/darker rose. Of course my reference examples are generally from Robert Siegel auctions on computer so color can be tough. I can't tell you I have seen #83 in person. But from searching thru auction websites, it seems the shade of rose can very from light to dark.

Regardless of color, (perhaps this shade is slightly too dark) I cannot find one certified copy where grill points are not visible on front of stamp. This is a fake stamp.