Live Stamp Auction Etiquette

I will be going to the NY expo at the end of the month (quite excited--this will be my first stamp expo; never even been to the National one yet). Seigel Auctions is having a "Rarities of the World" auction at the event. I do not have the financial freedom to bid on one of the items, but would love to sit in on at least some of it. Just the thought of being that close feels exciting (plus, who doesn't want to see the kind of people who drop $100,000 on a stamp?).

But I've also never been to a live auction, certainly not one of this caliber.

Can you attend if you are not a registered bidder? And if so, what is the etiquette for attire and for coming/going? Thanks in advance for any advice.

If its like the big coin auctions you may have to register especialy if its attached to a convention and there is a lot of people there. Go early the auction isnt fun if you dont have the money but nobody knows that when you view the lots, you can see neat stuff you could never own but somehow they never seem to look as valuable as they are.

These events are open to the public so you should be able to walk right in. The Siegel auction will attract a lot of lookers. They should have allocated a large room, but they are within their rights to permit entry only for registered bidders if the room is full.

Attire will be all over the place. I've been to New York and London auctions in person where some of the bidders looked like they just rolled out of bed ... Rumpled shirts, wrinkled cotton slacks. Others are sharp business casual. Suits and ties are unusual among bidders, but common among auction house staff. It's New York in early summer so keep the outdoor climate in mind too.

You can come and go as you please. It's courteous not to get up during bidding. Wait until the hammer drops and they are moving to the next lot. If you wait until the scheduled breaks, you will be competing for the nearest bathroom with 25 others ...

Don't expect too many high rollers to be present. They stay comfortably at home and use an agent to bid for them, while getting updates live in a cell phone call.

You could call them, and ask.

At an auction at their office, I felt it was only fair to surrender anonymity and register to bid. That included two commercial references, flashing a credit card, etc.

But Siegel at the Javits Center may be different than Siegel at their office.

For example, they may simply ask to see your WSSNY-16 badge, and record your ID number.

In any case, while there may well be a wide range of dress, you may feel more comfortable the closer you come to business attire.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

You are wasting the staff's time viewing items you don't plan on bidding on (and while you are looking at it, you are holding the items hostage so that a real bidder can't see them). Very poor etiquette. Just sittng in on the actual auction is a different story (as long as there are free seats and you don't disrupt the procedings). Make sure you phone is off!

Thanks all for the guidance!

I disagree about pre auction viewing. There are 25 hours of viewing over 4 days, spending an hour or so during the first or second day viewing some of the lots should be fine. Spending 4 or 5 hours would not.

I'll be there for sure. Looking forward to the show. They are also auctioning off an XF-95 invert Jenny. Will be interesting to see how much it goes for. Over 2 million?

I'd be content just to watch it on line (keeping the cat away from the keyboard so there are no accidental bids going on)

Rick

I would expect it to go for less then one million. Somewhere between $500,000-$850,000. It's a wide range, but it's that kind of stamp.

lukusw,

I urge you to attend and soak up as much exposure as possible. I'm sure you'll have plenty first-time attendees for company, including me. This will be my first World Stamp Expo, and it's a far larger affair than the previous stamp show I attended. So I'm eager to spend some time reviewing auction items.

I don't agree that it's bad judgement for avid collectors to view materials they may not bid on. Today I may not have the budget to bid on a gorgeous item, but things can change -- an inheritance, sale of a property, or an investment windfall and I could be a very active buyer. As a marketer I am sure auction houses want high attendance, great interest, and strong traffic in addition to robust bidding.

Plenty space in this Forum has been given to discussion of the impending demise of our hobby -- The most frequent lament..."Interest in stamp collecting isn't what it used to be!". Strong interest in stamping is paramount for auction houses and dealers to maintaining their business models. It can't be good for the hobby if interested collectors shy away from attending and viewing world-class items because of budget restrictions.

Go. View. Soak it in. Enjoy!

Nothing wrong with looking at things you are not going to buy. How else do you learn the differences in quality and varieties, with out actually holding and seeing them in person. Today, you may not be able to afford them, but who knows what tomorrow holds.

The auctiuon house has theresponsibility to protect the items they are selling on behalf of the consignors and have extra people looking at them increases the chance of damage. Also, a I said before, if you are viewing someinthing you have no intention of buying, someone who does want to bid on it can not view it while you are holding it hostage. I've even seen situations more than once where all the viewing seats were full, and if one of those seats was occupied by a "tourist" and I wanted to look at something I wanted to bid on I would not be happy.

My viewpoint is different from some of the views expressed. I've never attended a live auction, and have no plans on doing so.

If all the viewing seats are full, that is an auction house problem, not an attendee/viewer problem. Why should the general public have to be responsible for deciding whether it is proper or not to step in to a public auction or view the auction items??? The auctioneer can always hold a private auction instead of a public auction. The auctioneer can always up the credentials requirement, require a deposit for viewing/attending, or even require an entry fee. There ARE auctions/shows that do exactly that.

I don't understand why the curious person has to form an additional set of "participation" rules higher than those put in place by the auctioneer/administrator. Should a person not interested in stamps be discouraged from visiting the Postal Museum? I didn't expect my children to enjoy the Postal Museum (I was going to skip it entirely). But they ended up enjoying it more than I did.

When I go to the library, I don't concern myself with who else might want to check out the book, or who may want to peruse the book. I won't hesitate to hold onto a Scott catalog for the full length of the borrowing period. Same with shopping -- when I'm gathering info to make an informed purchase in the future, I'm not worried about who else might want to buy the product/service. If the salesman wants to move on to the next customer, so be it. But that's the salesman's call. It doesn't make sense that I should forgo a visit just because I'm not prepared to buy the product/service.

I know lots of people who enjoy window shopping. Sometimes they actually end up buying something. The AUCTIONEER needs to decide who to let in. There are several dealers that have never gotten a single cent from me, simply because they decided at first glance that I wasn't someone who was going to make any significant purchase. Sometimes they are right. But needless to say, when I did buy, I ended up buying from other dealers.

JMHO

khj,
Respectfully disagree, I think it is indeed an attendee/viewer problem (better described as an attendee/viewer etiquette problem). IF the seats are full and/or getting busy then the tire kickers should reconsider. IF the tire kickers are in line than they should view and handle the lots with care and respect.

I owned and ran a retail shop for many years. I could spin horror stories about 'lookers' who abused their 'looking' rights. Parents who used the store as a babysitting service, sending the kids in while they went and did their shopping somewhere else. People who would walk in while eating food and throwing uneaten food and drink down on the carpet. Guys walking in straight off the job site and tracking mud throughout the entire store. Those who would come in, act like they might be buying something, suck up 30 minutes of free information and advice but then walk over to the WalMart and make all their purchased there instead. I won't go into the stories of those who walked in and exposed themselves, stole things, or intentionally damaged inventory.

Etiquette is about having some consideration for others; and we should always keep that in mind. I do not believe that etiquette has to be implemented by 'rules'. Yes, I could have posted 'No Food or Drink' or 'No Unattended Children' signs on the store door but this impacts everyone instead of just the inconsiderate people. I disagree with 'Why should the general public have to be responsible…?' Isn't that abdicating the responsibility of consideration for others? The message seems to be, 'if there isn't a rule against it, take full selfish advantage of the situation'. In my opinion, the general public has to show some consideration for others, including understanding that the people who have consigned lots and the auction house are both there to sell material, not to be an philatelic exhibit.

So I can see several ways a tire kicker may act. On one end of the scale is a considerate person, acknowledging that they aren't there for the primary purpose of buying material and act accordingly. On the other end are inconsiderate clods who exhibit behavior that is most decidedly selfishly and self-serving. If you end up with a high percentage of the latter, you will find that auction houses and sellers will eventually go away.
Don

I think a lot of what you said goes without saying. What I took issue with was the idea that if you weren't buying this time, you shouldn't go see anything or attend at all.

Of course there will always be extreme examples of those who abuse opportunities. But I don't think the OP was planning on bringing along a few toddlers or eating a sundae while viewing lots. I was considering the situation of the OP, and the question of whether it was appropriate for him to go see some lots and maybe sit in on the auction. I did extend that to viewing/attending other public functions as well.

To be honest, I am totally taken aback by the idea that I should not trouble a dealer or view any lot that I am not buying for fear that I may be messing up a sales opportunity for someone else. That is the issue I was addressing. In the end, it is up to the auctioneer to provide enough seating, whether by increasing seating, restricting who is allowed to enter, or kicking non-active bidders out. People get "into it" and easily lose track of time or the situation around them. Overstaying one's welcome/viewing is always a potential problem; a few regular announcements usually solves that problem.

Handling things carefully, leaving when seating is full to give others opportunity, giving up a seat for a lady, not carrying on cellphone conversations during the auction... I pretty much assumed was all common courtesy. As is common courtesy to turn the lot back in if people are waiting in line for it (e.g., like returning a library book on time when someone has a hold put on it).

Understood. But is assuming that everyone has common courtesy realistic? Unfortunately this has not been my experience, courtesy is not a given.

For me the context of the situation is commercial. So those who go into the situation should understand that those who are there to buy have the highest priority. And saying that it is the responsibility of the auction firm to list and 'rules' that enforces courtesy seems to remove responsibility from the non-buyers.

The context of the thread is etiquette, it seemed to me that the OP was seeking input on auction courtesy. So auction etiquette means that if buyers are lined up do not consume the resources, be highly considerate in handling the material, and keep in mind that the purpose is commercial and not a stamp exhibit.
Don