Live Stamp Auction Etiquette

On those points I most definitely agree. It is not a sight-seeing spot, but a business, and should be duly respected as such. I've spoken and advised many business owners over the years, and more than understand the horrors you have to deal with.

I've organized/managed large meetings for 20+ years. It's even worse when you're non-profit. It's almost like a flashing sign that says "it's OK to take advantage or even steal, because we're non-profit anyway"!

I think this is a great thread, to help open our eyes to things to be aware of...

Don is correct.

There are primary purposes for attending an auction (bidding) & secondary purposes (sightseeing).

At the library, I would not hesitate to surrender a book - even one I was actually reading - to someone who was researching their PhD thesis.

Etiquette must be taught; good on the OP to sign-up for lessons.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

I too respectfully disagree with a few here - but that's what we're all here for - to comment our views, feelings and experiences.

The show is open to the public, as are most of the activities, such as the auction. If the auction house wanted to limit participation or attendance or set forth certain requirements, so be it, and they'd let you know when you enter. Auctions are not new, having been held at large shows and those much smaller. The auction houses knows what goes on, and if there's something they feel the need to dissuade people from, they'll let you know.

Auction attendees are not children, nor are they tourists with nothing to do in a big expensive city, nor are they foreign to adult etiquette.

Those attendees who want to participate much less simply attend, will. They are not new to the auction house game and know how and when to view, where best to be seated, how to participate and so on.

As for the etiquette of one - it doesn't necessarily match the etiquette of another. If there were an occasion that was particularly annoying, adults have ways of making such a situation known. Same with the auction house employees and security. Likewise at such shows, philatelic, model railroads, muscle cars or whatever, there are things you don't do such as sit in the drivers seat if not invited. At philatelic auctions you don't reach into a display to touch a stamp or try to photograph it from a thousand angles.... Most of that is common sense, not etiquette.

I once owned a computer store that had tons of kids visit. Talk about adult supervision! But our policies were well known and equally administered and we had minimal issues. At philatelic auctions I see few rambunctious kids with soda cans, chewing gum and sticky-fingering everything in sight.

So that leads me to say that the etiquette of one is not the etiquette of all. And, what might have been etiquette of the past has definitely changed over time. If old fashioned etiquette existed in such highly attended events and true etiquette ruled, no one would bump into another. Everyone would be excusing themselves for something or other. No one would be yacking on a cell phone or stand in the middle of the floor or flow of people and so on.

If the auction house wants to prequalify attendees, so be it. If they want to establish a certain form of behavior, they will. But until they do, being open to the event attending public is open to the event attending public - seats and all.

Some comments are mixing up "proper" auction etiquette with unacceptable slovenly behavior. These are very different situations. The original post by lukusw did not assume a callus disregard for civilized behavior!



Personally, I think perhaps one of the challenges the stamp collecting hobby faces is a rather stuffy attitude that can be off-putting to newer or younger collectors.

Last year I was very indignant when I visited a local stamp retailer only to be given the bum's rush after a few minutes. The business owner showed me zero interest in my collecting plans as he returned to what he was doing. I realize I was a new face, but that dealer will never see me return to purchase.

Likewise, if an auction house frowns on my viewing their wares, or taking a seat in order to familiarize myself with their operations and prices, I certainly don't need to feel that I am an unwanted intruder.

Why should an auction house have to pay extra money to rent a bigger viewing space to accommodate people want to justy look at the stamps and who have no intention of bidding?

Because it's a PUBLIC AUCTION. The PUBLIC is invited to view the lots. It's the auction house's responsibility to have enough room and enough employees for viewing. It is not in the auction house's best interests to try to determine who might or might not be a serious bidder from the collectors they do not recognize, especially at an international show which will presumably have a higher then normal attendance. It is also not the responsibility of the serious collector who is trying to learn but cannot afford to bid at the present time to worry about those collectors who can bid. Certainly some decorum is needed, but to tell people that they cannot view unless they plan to bid is ridiculous. I have worked a number of auction viewings, and have never heard of a viewer being turned away unless there was some kind of history there.

In the same sense as PUBLIC LIBRARY? I think not.

Could we back up a bit? From the OP:



"rules" of etiquette when approaching lot viewing.

1. Remember that the house is guardian of consigned material until delivered to a new owner. They rule. Period.

2. Remember that bidding in a sale is a PRIVILEDGE not a RIGHT.

3. When in doubt about anything, ASK. (That includes taking pictures)

4. Confine "window shopping" to slack times. This is a business.

5. Keep all hazardous objects and substances, including light, away from the material.

6. You "break" it, you buy it. Be forewarned and be prepared.

7. Be patient and wait your turn. Too many demands is cause for dismissal.

8. Politeness and courtesy earn respect and opportunities.

9. What you wear on the outside matters less than what you wear on the inside.

I don't recall saying anything about public libraries. And I did say "some decorum is needed". The fact remains that it is a "public auction", which means that the public is invited to view and bid or not bid as they choose. No where does it say "only the bidding public is invited to view".
BTW, no one keeps light away from the material during viewing; in fact table lights are often guarded jealously by people viewing. No one knowledgeable would even think of viewing without one.

I was the one who mentioned libraries on page 1. In the context of borrowing things for viewing -- I noted that I am not concerned about who else may need it. If I'm allotted 2 hours, 2 days, or 2 weeks... I return it by then. If there's a waiting list, I wait my turn and expect others to wait their turn. I am not concerned with why the person before me or after me wanted to see the book/item. If someone wants to see the item after me, the library lets me know there is a hold on the item so I cannot renew it. The library also limits time/access for popular items. It's not rocket science. I'll let the library decide what should be restricted further.

As I mentioned, I've never attended a live auction of a major auction house. All the auction houses I've dealt with always told me I could schedule a viewing of specific lots. So I admit I'm in the dark here regarding the concept that someone is holding a lot item "hostage". I can understand how it can be annoying. But the same thing happens at shows. I just check out other items until that item is freed up again.

They don't have to, but many auctions do for publicity, image, and for future customers. Likewise, some auctions are very restrictive because they don't want non-buyers, so they require credentials, references, deposits, or even entrance fees. Some auctions are COMPLETELY private. It's their business, their choice.

If one doesn't like the business model employed by the auction house, one is certainly free to make suggestions to them. I would assume that after so many years in business, they've thought this through and have come to the conclusion that despite all the potential problems, the benefits have far outweighed drawbacks. Might there be room for improvement -- probably. Let the business know what you think rather than telling curious stamp collectors to buzz off.

I greatly appreciate all of your inputs. Essayk, as always, you do very well keeping conversations focused and I appreciate your advice to my original questions. This conversation has helped me better grasp what to expect in New York.

I've never bid on a non-Ebay auction (much less a world class live auction) before, so I don't have an opinion about how it should go. Certainly, we should all practice and expect kindness and consideration whether we are bidding or not. I respect an auction house's right (they are a business, after all) to prioritize bidders over non-bidders. At the same time, I appreciate the opportunity to access such beautiful high end items.

As a younger (in my 30s) collector, I think to many of my peers philately seems boring or irrelevant partly because the "really cool" stuff is often inaccessible--hidden in private collections or requiring a level of expertise to understand. Most of the most beautiful, stirring, and spectacular pieces (such as those to be shown in New York) are a universe away from the casual or new collector. So I appreciate that auction houses of this stature would even allow "window shopping". I think it IS important for our hobby (kind of like the difference between looking at famous artwork in a magazine versus getting to see it in person...there is a huge difference in impact), and it would be nice for them to be as accessible as possible. However, they are also very valuable items that are going to end up with private owners, so I think public access should be balanced by a respect for the value and future owners. The logistics of how that should be carried out is beyond my experience.

Single lot items are usually on pages inside a small plastic pouch which is inside of a larger plastic pouch, so both sides should be easily viewed. Unless one is VERY confident and USED TO HOLDING high end items it is best if they are not removed from the pouches. Large lots can range from a small box filled with small stock cards to several cartons filled with albums, pages, glassines, and who knows what.

I agree. The items should not be removed from the sleeves for recreational viewing. As an aside, the worst handling I have seen has been at the hands of auction house employees tasked with tending the previewers. Frightening to say the least...

I just viewed online, many of the incredible items that will be at this auction.
I feel that many buyers will be quite familiar with the specific
lots that they have interest in before arriving in NY. Many buyers may not even be there, due to Siegles's online presence.

Not to sound goofy, but I plan on attending certain areas of this
auction. I would not want to be there without being registered and
having a buyers #. I may only purchase a beverage, but who knows what
treasures may sell at moderate prices.

Bob, I'll be there also. Will also get a bidding number. Unlikely to be a buyer, but you never know. It's a public auction, and I'll enjoy attending and viewing.