Franklin 390 Line Pair Authentication

Came across another line pair. Experts book says rarely faked other than adding a guideline, and everything checks out. The two pictures below show two different spots at an angle. I am not good and this part yet, but it seems that this guideline may be legitimate- doesn't go inside the holes, all line up straight, and seems to curve around the holes. But I am not 100% sure what to check for.

Michael, that is not a guideline but a seamline. A seamline is where the two plates meet. If you like an opinion we will need a much better picture, one that shows the stamps straight and all of both sides.

Peter

Agree. Impossible to make any judgement based on what you have provided. It is best to simply post nice, clear, straight-on photos.

Thanks for the input on this (and the others). I am traveling and only have access to a portable microscope, but will definitely add a scan over the weekend when I get home. I hadn't realized that made such a difference but it does make sense.

nice pictures! but yes better ones, as listed above are needed--

Here we go, hopefully this picture is better

Does any slight derivation from the edges being straight usually mean it's a fake coil?

The perforations seem to show that this pair is genuine, but the bottom left edge gives reason to worry. We need an expert opinion on this.

Peter

The guideline pair is likely genuine. However it should be noted that an extensive stock of single line watermark imperforate coils existed and were privately perforated to resemble perf 12, 8 1/2 or 10 coils. Sheets perforated 8 1/2 in one direction were cut in half and pasted up to form rolls ten stamps wide. The coil rolls were then stripped into coils using the new Stickney auto wound coiling machines. Initially, the machines had ten knives leaving the center line edge uncut. One coil out of ten would have one side with the characteristics of a natural straight edge and the other side with an auto wound cut edge. By the time perforations were changed from 8 1/2 to 10 an eleventh knife was added and the center line spacing was increased to allow a more uniform coil product.

It should be noted that flat plate sheets were printed with horizontal and vertical center lines to facilitate splitting sheets into four panes of 100. Later rotary press coils had joint lines where the curved plates were adjacent on the rotary press cylinder. Nowhere is the term "seamline" used.

It is time for posters here to get their facts and terminology straight before posting.

The images posted in this thread are not useful for authentication or debunking because the images are too small or are at crazy angles. Many perf 8 1/2 fakes came from one source. The perforations were aligned between rows and generally well centered between the stamps. Coil centering can vary because most single line watermark fakes were made from Bureau imperforate coils.

Who makes this stuff up? A simple examination of the perforations of an early rotary press coil compared to a genuine flat plate coil should be enough. Rotary press coil perforation holes will be elongated in the opposite direction from flat plate coils. Since the Stickney rotary press development is relatively well documented, where do collectors go to make up some of the disinformation posted on this site and elsewhere?

This topic made me look at my (supposed) 390 again.



The color is more of a Yellow Green, but the perf holes don't quite match up, and there is a highly visible single-line "S" on the back, so I think it is authentic.

But, I also noted the odd markings in the top "US Postage". I marked some of the areas of interest, but the S in Postage is the most noticeable:





My Scott Specialized calls the color Green or Dark Green and there is a mention of Double Transfer, but no example. My Encyclopedia of Plate Varieties (French) lists a DT example, but the picture is not like my example. Any ideas on this one?

Partime, you demonstrate a good example of trying to compare colors from scanning. Your 1st scan shows the yellow / green but the zoom in scans make it appear dark green, presuming all the scans are the same stamp.

That does appear to be a minor double transfer, there are also extra lines in the middle and bottom of the S.

Yes, the same stamp. The first is from a standard scanner, which is pretty close to the correct color (in my opinion). The second set is from my Celestron Microscope which tends to darken everything. I have to see if I can get the color balance to work better.

cfrphoto
I would like to assure you, those words are not wasted on me.

More than once I've had to pull my foot out of my mouth after pulling my head out of my...well you know.