Scott 143 Double Grill.

On the other hand supporting those who sell misrepresented stamps is not good for the hobby, it rewards unethical listing behavior and encourages them to sell more.

Hi,I actually don't collect them,I buy grilled stamps that look fairy good in pictures hoping there real,if there fake sure I'm disappointed but rather than throw them out I give them to APS.I'm not about to start a a big deal with a guy who sold me a 99 cent fake,he probably didn't know,now if he has lots of them listed then I tell the website.

Try to keep this in perspective. Buying a well executed fake as such at a very low price is harmless compared to a high volume ebay seller who has sold relatively large quantities of imperforate stamps with fake perforations as Scott 388 coils or perf 11 Scott 519 at high prices running into the hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Some dealers of this ilk may be making their entire profit off of fakes, making it difficult for more responsible dealers to compete for lots to break down at auction.

Don's point about common alterations is a good one, but reperforated stamps are so pervasive in the marketplace that eradicating them would be next to impossible. Unfortunately, straight edge stamps continue to appear in collections and perforating machines are still being used. Should dealers keep straight edge stamps off the market also?

If collectors and the Scott catalog had embraced straight edge stamps as a collectible variety, much of the financial incentive to add perforations would have disappeared. Eventually, collectors get what they think they want. Whether it is what they really wanted is another issue.

I agree that responsibility falls on both ends of the spectrum (hobbyists and organized philately).

Hobbyists should resist the desire to turn the hobby into a 'treasure hunt'. It is understood that as hobbyists we all enjoy running across a rarer stamp. But approaching the hobby thinking that you will find an incredibly rare stamp and become wealthy is a sure way to become disappointed and frustrated. Imagine trying to become an art collector thinking that one day you will uncover an previously unknown painting. The first thing I always hear about collecting art is to collect what appeals to you; that paying for art that you really enjoy will never be regretful. We need the same message communicated much more in our hobby.

We also need some good old fashioned investigative reporting in the philatelic press exposing some of the issues. There is an over whelming silence on the topic of online fraud from the philatelic press. APS seems to be sticking it's head in the sand regarding ebay. Here is the APS webpage telling hobbyists where they 'can get stamps'…



Talk about the 800 pound gorilla in the room. What are we to think about the obvious omission of any mention of online auction buying? Is the hope that if they ignore the problems they will simply go away? I would think that the explosion of online sales would have generated an upswing in articles and web pages outlining the potential pitfalls. Instead it appears that we are whistling in dark.

It is far past time that the philatelic press has a frank, honest, and open discussion regarding the problems and issues in our hobby. They could start with topics such as online fraud and the impact of grading.
Don

Since the vast majority of collectors don't like straight edge stamps, they would have very low cat values anyway even if they were listed as a variety. So the incentive to add perts would still be there. And reperfing and regumming stamps are VERY old ideas, both going back well over 100 years. Fraud in philately goes back almost to the beginning of the hobby. The only effective way to combat fraud is knowledge. Study what you collect, and learn what is necessary.

Why would an organization that promotes member dealers, and has its own sales channel, refer anywhere to a competing seller or channel like ebay? Ignoring ebay in this particular page is just sensible marketing by APS. Marketing 101 - Don't draw attention to the competition.

Chris

The APS mission statement..



So the argument is that education is restricted to only things that do not compete with their profit centers? I, for one, did not join APS to support an organization who selectively presents only non-competitive content.

And if they are not supporting competitive endeavors than why only leave out online auctions? They have no problems with suggesting several other competitive methods (post office, dealers, etc.).

In the exact same way they mention the various approaches, (tying in their interests at the end of the statement) they could have outlined all online auctions outlets and tied back in the APS store.

In my opinion APS is supposed to promoting stamp collecting, ALL stamp collecting (as per the mission statement). Not just the parts which puts money in it's pockets. If they want to only promote it's own self interests, then change the mission statement and I'll stop supporting them.
Don

The statements you want them to make about online buying are just out of place in this particular page because of the complexity of that channel and because the page is intended as a short, simple summary of sources that are not likely to trip up the reader. For the same reason, they don't mention live auctions in New York City.

I have no problem with urging APS to develop a set of web pages, video or seminar on buying at auction. But it is a complex area with many competing stakeholders with starkly different views so I cannot find fault with its omission in this particular web page.

Chris

Understood. Obviously adding 10-15 more words to the page is not complex, but I agree that the politics of it may be.
Don

Hello friends:

Here is a excellent page about the Fakes and Forgeries of USA Classic stamps that were sold out in ebay which includes the grill stamps. I hope that this guide will be useful for all you.

http://www.slingshotvenus.com/stamps/fakes.html

Regards!
Rodolfo