Graded Certs/Unused V Og/Ph Vs NH

thought I would try to stimulate some discussion on the above three topics. Are you in favor of graded certificates? If you collect unused classic US do you insist on OG or will you buy Unused NG and I guess an extension of that is what fraction of your pre 1920 US collection is certified? And finally, do you insist on NH?

My answers are :
1. I am not in favor of graded certs since I think the grade assigned seems too often arbitrary as in my opinion the calling of very minor flaws. I also feel strongly about the crazy prices being paid for recent, high mintage stamps that receive a PSE grade of 95-100. Why is that an achievement for stamps printed in the multimillions?
2. I have no problem collecting Unused NG for pre 1890 stamps but will usually insist on OG after that and will not buy unused US without gum without a cert since too many NG stamps are actually used with cancellation removed.
3. I could care less if the stamp was hinged or not as long as the hinge was light and not overly defacing the back. I'm not interested in paying the exorbitant premium for NH. And in the time period that most interests me (pre 1890) NH would be very expensive, if indeed it could be found.
4. I use all 3 major expertizing services and also have started to use Bill Weiss as well. The majority of certs are PF but most of my certified stamps are from long ago purchases.

As to number 1, I think you are right in line with most of us on the SCF. We've had a few discussion about this over the last 18 months or so. Why pay $500+ for a stamp cataloging at $1? IMHO, there is no reason!

BTW, to the SCF. I think you'll find us a fun group to hang out with. You can waste time at work like we do!

Hi funcitypapa, and welcome to SFC.

I've only been collecting US stamps for a few months, pre 1940, so at the moment I'm working on Scott 600 - 900, working my way backwards from 1940. I collect MUH and only very well centred, so XF+. This of course is a real challenge, for one thing I buy every stamp individually and not in sets or groups, so I can select only well centred with no faults. The other problem is finding a well centred stamp that hasn't been graded! It's a real pain, as you scroll down lists of stamps, see a well centred one, look at the title and price, and sure enough, PSE Graded 98 etc, $575 for a 20 cent stamp. You can't even see the difference with the naked eye between a 95 and a 98, but the price difference!

What really annoys me about this grading thing is that the exact same stamp without a graded cert. would sell at around CV or a little more. What kind of a basis for stamp pricing is that? A superb stamp should be worth a certain amount, not dependant on whether it has a grade or not. How can you put 2 stamps side by side, that look absolutely identical, and say this one is worth $1, but this one that you can't see any difference is worth $500 because it's been graded.

I am prepared to pay more than CV for a superbly centred stamp. That's always been the way, premiums are paid for superb examples. I've found I don't have to resort to this that often, as I can usually find perfectly centred stamps (to the eye) at normal prices. But on occassion after much searching if the only stamp I can find is priced higher because the seller has labelled it "gradable" or just put a higher price on it, I've paid it, usually up to 5 to 10 times CV for the cheaper issues (so like $2 for a 20 cent CV stamp.) So far I've only purchased one PSE graded stamp. I do have a few on my watch list if I can't find similar.

As for your other questions, I'll refer to my other collecting interest, which is the Australian colony of Victoria, so 1850 - 1912. Where possible I will pay for MUH. That's just always been my preference. However this of course is not always possible, so some of my stamps are hinged OG. For stamps that are worth $1K+ I'll often get used to space fill. I don't like the idea of unused NG and have never bought any, even when I've seen some that look great. One reason being the same as you mentioned, that it could be a used stamp with the cancellation removed. The other reason is that the stamps were issued with gum, so that's just my preference for collecting them. To me they're not whole if they have no gum. Eventually I may have no choice though.




I'm at work atm. Stuck in the office on light duties still, but at least I have plenty of time online.

Balf

I'm really into the front of the stamp in most cases and if I want/like/need the stamp, I'll pretty much take what I can get, at a fair, or less, price, of course. I am of the same mind regards grading of stamps. We don't need it and I refuse to get involved in that game.

Good discussion.

When I started collecting US, I decided to collect MNH -- and I was able to do that for most everything between 1930 and 2000. For those modern stamps there's really no price difference in MH and MNH. However, for everything else, like you, I've come to the conclusion that a little hinging on the part of the stamp I can't see won't kill me. And as I collect backwards into the 19th century, I can't afford many mint stamps either way :-)

KirkS

My view (and it is obviously only my view) is that you can make you own grading decisions if you spend time with stamps and trust your eye. If you're comfortable with your grading abilities, and you are willing to wait for examples with nice centering, you can usually get to the same place as a buyer of a graded example. The difference comes on resale, when your pool of buyers may contain people who are less comfortable in their grading abilities. If a third party has blessed a particular stamp, it is undoubtedly easier for a less comfortable buyer to plunk down the money.

In my view, this has been carried to the extreme in the present climate. Undoubtedly, many graded stamps look beautiful. But, you can see many, many collectors who have assembled a beautiful page by carefully choosing their stamps.

I think there is a false scarcity created by claiming a census of "only 20 stamps have graded ____" when only a tiny fraction of the issued stamps have been graded at all. Take the Golden Gate 20-cent issue of 1923 (from the Fourth Bureau Issue). About 1,300,000,000 (yes, billion) were printed. How many would grade 95 or better? 7? 10? 30? Maybe 300,000. Maybe more. I don't wish ill on anyone, particularly if they have found a way to enjoy this great hobby, but I have to believe a significant correction is headed their way.


Again, this is just my 2d.

Collin
[edit: On further reflection, I may not have fairly considered the number of nicely centered stamps that remain in a Never Hinged state; still, you can go to any reasonably-sized bourse in the US and find beautiful ungraded examples of pretty much any 20th-century US stamp.]

Grading is great - if you're selling a nice example. If you're trying to buy, it's ridiculous, unless you have way too much money.... I still can't get over seeing a '50's era .03 stamp selling for $500+ because it was graded 98 Superb. Mine looks just as nice with very fine centering - and I paid .15. I guess there will always be folks with the wherewithal to buy THE BEST (and I would like to be one of those), but I've seen and bought many collections where the owner paid attention to centering and color (without graded examples) making their collections very fun to look at! I've also seen big collections of pretty poorly centered, ratty stuff - not as much fun, but at least seemed to satisfy the owner! As for my collection, I refuse to have my items graded, though I will pay for a certificate for those difficult or often faked issues.