Rule Of Thumb?

I'm sure this has been discussed many times here, but I am wondering what Scott values really are? When I buy something on ebay I generally assume that if I can buy it at one-third to one-half of Scott I got a pretty good deal. I know that real value is what willing buyer pays a willing seller - but apart from that - how reliable are Scott values? And if transactions aren't routinely traded at the Scott price, what does that say about so called book values?

Much like Fish and Chips.
You take it with a pinch of salt.

Londonbus1.....Loves Fish and Chips.

Since you asked, here is my rule of thumb.

If it's something I am actively looking for, I will see if I can get it at a nice price elsewhere. If nothing turns out after a while, I know if my local dealer has it, he will sell it at half of catalog (maybe less). For these things it is worth my time to pay a premium and pick it up when I want it.

If it's something I would like, but am not actively looking for, then I will wait for the right price at the right time (and usually significantly less than half of catalog.

My cynical take (haven't had my coffee yet this morning) is that Scott inflates prices in the catalog, so that everyone feels better about their collection. The buyer feels good about getting a deal at, say, 50-80% off sticker price. The seller is happy to be making a deal and (sometimes) turning a profit.

This means more people use Scott and Scott sells more catalogs.

It's like sizes on women's clothing. If the small sizes are bigger, more women buy them, because they feel better about wearing a smaller size.

In general and speaking only from my own personal experience stamps which range from $5-$100 retail at about 30%-50% of their catalogue values. Under that range stamps can be bought at 20% or less. Above $100 the ratio of retail/catalogue value rises.

So as a thumb rule (taken with a grain of LondonBus' salt) I would say that if a stamp value is 20 cents you could get it for practically nothing or very close to it. If the cat. value is $60 you should expect paying $20-$30. And if it's around $1000 you can expect somewhere between $750 to $2000.

I know that others here would be able to give zillion examples of how the way I see it does not match reality but all in all as a GENERAL rule I think my "formula" is not that far from what happens in the stamp market (or at least it works for me).

Scott Catalog is a joke. As others have said.

And.... don't expect to make any money.

This is a hobby.

Sad but true, Gaff!

But back to catalogue values. As a Brit, and Stanley Gibbons user, has anyone done a comparison between the two catalogues? (We Brits even spell it differently...) Are the values quoted roughly equivalent?

I have heard it suggested on other sites that 30-50% of catalogue value is a realistic figure in most cases.

It's hard to give a general %, because it varies considerable with area and type of material. But I would say yes, that is realistic.

Regarding the original post, I would not say 1/3 to 1/2 Scott is a pretty good deal. Rather, I would say that is a typical deal to a good deal. You'd have to go lower than that to call it a pretty good deal.

When I sell stamps to the public, I typically sell them at 1/4 to 1/3 Scott catalog, unless it is an item that has a relatively high wholesale value.

Stamps with only minor defects normally go for even lower than that.

However, knowing the market is better than knowing the catalog value. Catalog values are usually a good relative indicator, but in some areas it is not even close. A dirty secret (OK, not so secret) -- they don't update the catalog values for every country every year. Some countries can go 5+ years with no price updates. If you know the market, that's where the real deals can be found -- or where you realized you overpaid because the catalog didn't reflect the downturn in that area.

This is an interesting question. Something that I have wondered many times myself. As a added extra to this question, if Scott inflates the prices (and I don't doubt it) what are they using as justification on raising the value of one stamp and not another? Is it based on the country's political environment or just based on the amount of stamps that are bought more than others?

Donna

Actually, when it comes to overpricing, almost all the major catalogs are a joke. If anything, the Scott catalog values are probably closer to the typical retail price.

Regarding pricing, the most useful information is the "relative" value. That way you will know what is more valuable. Then study the market to determine actual value.

I just had this discussion with another stamp collector.

Scott does not "inflate" the catalog values. They are based on the published retail values of major dealers and major auction house sales. There will always be smaller dealers and internet sellers trying to undercut. However, these dealers/sellers normally do not maintain a comprehensive stock or pricelist. It is simply what they happen to have available; this type of price tends to fluctuate wildly -- it's like street vendor pricing.

Like most collectors, I normally do not buy from the major dealers and only occasionally from the major auction houses. We normally buy from the smaller dealers and internet sellers. So we are accustomed to seeing significantly lower selling prices.

If you look at the pricelists from the major dealers, you will see that Scott is not too far off the mark.

Why doesn't Scott incorporate more sales information. As I mentioned, internet listings are unstable, and therefore, the reliability is questionable. We can get an idea based on experience, but to actually sell a catalog -- you need to have solid facts and solid pricing. This is what Scott, and the other major catalog makers try to do.

That being said, I personally rarely see the need to come even remotely close to paying full Scott catalog value for a stamp. There are few stamps that warrant at or above Scott catalog value. Those are either true rarities, shortage in available supply, or speculative issues. My opinion.

This is a VERY dangerous discussion! I can think of many stamps that will commonly sell for full Cat. or more! Others, I would gladly pay double for(and have) if I could find them. When you have been looking for something long enough with no luck, and then find it. If you want it bad enough Cat. goes out the window. There are examples of this every day in the auction world.

I do not understand why you consider this a dangerous discussion? I think this is a good discussion. An informed decision is the best decision. Why not be able to put in your experience, as you have?



This is true. I've seen topicals that sell for 5x-10x catalog. Some collectors don't care about catalog value. That is why I say if you want to the know the true value, study the market. Otherwise, pay what you are willing.

There are some large stamp companies that regularly sell stamps for above Scott catalog and do so successfully.

Again, the catalog prices are largely based on fixed pricelists, and for rarer material, auction prices. The catalog makers do not take into consideration the minority of collectors that will pay significantly more for a some items of their personal liking, or collectors like me that will only pay significantly less.

However, again, my personal habit is that I rarely have the need nor the desire to pay anywhere close to full catalog value. Each collector has his/her own habits.

My thoughts:
I do not buy through ebay etc, so cannot comment.
I like the way Tony Macg here, follows prices in a spreadsheet
he has a specialised interest, and I am sure that avenue serves
and works well.

I am blessed with being a WW collector, so seeking
specialised stamps is not that big an issue.

For the mundane, the common and definitives, I was buying
at the Red Cross stamp shop for approx 20c each, until I joined
a local stamp club, where the circuit sheets commonly have stamps at 5c, and as the rarity increases so the price, but always
at a very low price comparably.

Now, I would rarely buy anywhere else, I like the ability
with "circuit sheets" to make choices on quality, rarity, price
and set completeness, as my own decision.

All this goes out the window with specialised collecting
and I think revstampman's advice is pertinent.
I watched agog once, on two fellows bidding for two penny blacks
at auction, that was scary stuff.

My "rule of thumb" perhaps not suited to all, but
to the beginning collector, is to join a stamp club
that has circuit sheet options, I don't really think you can
do better.

Condition has been left out of most of this discussion. If you read Scott's introduction, you see that the values for most of the stamps are for stamps in VF condition. Scott illustrates what VF looks like, although I will admit that I find it difficult to see the small differences. If there is a huge centering departure from VF, no problem, but the subtle differences are somewhat hard to see.

Only a small departure from VF, or heaven forbid, a small defect, can send the price way down.


I have bought stamps from dealers on ebay which in all honesty do have have a defect or two. A thin doesn't usually bother me, but a tear or pulled perfs does. (grammar?) It all depends on what the defect is. Anyway, I have gotten Scott catalog values of 600 dollars for probably less than 10%.

Slightly off the topic, but the title of this thread reminded me of something which cropped up in an applied economics class when I was at school (donkey's years ago!). The teacher said "The rule of thumb is that as demand goes up, supply goes down (or whatever)".

A fellow pupil, not being aware of the idiom, duly trotted out in a subsequent essay : "Thumb's Rule states that...."