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1931 Yorktown stamp observation  
 

 
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Valued Member
United States
125 Posts
Posted 01/14/2018   02:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add TJA1523 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I have several blocks of these stamps and was trying to research the significance of the plate block numbers. Then, I thought maybe image differences. Well I couldnt find anything about image. Also, realize I need a plate block number reference. To the question, are their several varieties of this stamp? I noticed the images shifted to the left on only one stamp, only me. Three pictures coming up, 1 is the stamp and the others are the comparison. Thank you

TJA




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Posted 01/14/2018   03:14 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The stamp was printed in two passes, so the registration can wander. This makes it likely that stamps will not be well aligned on some stamps. Hobbyists would have increased demand if the mis-registration is very, very striking to the eye.

Plate number for this issue are somewhat more complex than other stamps. You can find free, online plate number info on Stamp Smarter.
http://stampsmarter.com/features/Pl...ockHome.html

The plate numbers are in pairs (one for red plate and one for black plate), there is a total of 472 pairs of plate numbers and they are listed below.

20470 20461
20470 20462
20470 20463
20470 20464
20470 20465
20470 20478
20470 20479
20470 20480
20470 20481
20470 20482
20470 20483
20470 20484
20470 20485
20470 20486
20470 20487
20470 20488
20472 20461
20472 20462
20472 20463
20472 20464
20472 20465
20472 20478
20472 20479
20472 20480
20472 20481
20472 20482
20472 20483
20472 20484
20472 20485
20472 20486
20472 20487
20472 20488
20473 20461
20473 20462
20473 20463
20473 20464
20473 20465
20473 20478
20473 20479
20473 20480
20473 20481
20473 20482
20473 20483
20473 20484
20473 20485
20473 20486
20473 20487
20473 20488
20474 20461
20474 20462
20474 20463
20474 20464
20474 20465
20474 20478
20474 20479
20474 20480
20474 20481
20474 20482
20474 20483
20474 20484
20474 20485
20474 20486
20474 20487
20474 20488
20475 20461
20475 20462
20475 20463
20475 20464
20475 20465
20475 20478
20475 20479
20475 20480
20475 20481
20475 20482
20475 20483
20475 20484
20475 20485
20475 20486
20475 20487
20475 20488
20476 20461
20476 20462
20476 20463
20476 20464
20476 20465
20476 20478
20476 20479
20476 20480
20476 20481
20476 20482
20476 20483
20476 20484
20476 20485
20476 20486
20476 20487
20476 20488
20477 20461
20477 20462
20477 20463
20477 20464
20477 20465
20477 20478
20477 20479
20477 20480
20477 20481
20477 20482
20477 20483
20477 20484
20477 20485
20477 20486
20477 20487
20477 20488
20504 20461
20504 20462
20504 20463
20504 20464
20504 20465
20504 20478
20504 20479
20504 20480
20504 20481
20504 20482
20504 20483
20504 20484
20504 20485
20504 20486
20504 20487
20504 20488
20505 20461
20505 20462
20505 20463
20505 20464
20505 20465
20505 20478
20505 20479
20505 20480
20505 20481
20505 20482
20505 20483
20505 20484
20505 20485
20505 20486
20505 20487
20505 20488
20506 20461
20506 20462
20506 20463
20506 20464
20506 20465
20506 20478
20506 20479
20506 20480
20506 20481
20506 20482
20506 20483
20506 20484
20506 20485
20506 20486
20506 20487
20506 20488
20507 20461
20507 20462
20507 20463
20507 20464
20507 20465
20507 20478
20507 20479
20507 20480
20507 20481
20507 20482
20507 20483
20507 20484
20507 20485
20507 20486
20507 20487
20507 20488
20508 20461
20508 20462
20508 20463
20508 20464
20508 20465
20508 20478
20508 20479
20508 20480
20508 20481
20508 20482
20508 20483
20508 20484
20508 20485
20508 20486
20508 20487
20508 20488
20509 20461
20509 20462
20509 20463
20509 20464
20509 20465
20509 20478
20509 20479
20509 20480
20509 20481
20509 20482
20509 20483
20509 20484
20509 20485
20509 20486
20509 20487
20509 20488
20510 20461
20510 20462
20510 20463
20510 20464
20510 20465
20510 20478
20510 20479
20510 20480
20510 20481
20510 20482
20510 20483
20510 20484
20510 20485
20510 20486
20510 20487
20510 20488
20511 20461
20511 20462
20511 20463
20511 20464
20511 20465
20511 20478
20511 20479
20511 20480
20511 20481
20511 20482
20511 20483
20511 20484
20511 20485
20511 20486
20511 20487
20511 20488
20512 20461
20512 20462
20512 20463
20512 20464
20512 20465
20512 20478
20512 20479
20512 20480
20512 20481
20512 20482
20512 20483
20512 20484
20512 20485
20512 20486
20512 20487
20512 20488
20597 20461
20597 20462
20597 20463
20597 20464
20597 20465
20597 20478
20597 20479
20597 20480
20597 20481
20597 20482
20597 20483
20597 20484
20597 20485
20597 20486
20597 20487
20597 20488
20598 20461
20598 20462
20598 20463
20598 20464
20598 20465
20598 20478
20598 20479
20598 20480
20598 20481
20598 20482
20598 20483
20598 20484
20598 20485
20598 20486
20598 20487
20598 20488
20599 20461
20599 20462
20599 20463
20599 20464
20599 20465
20599 20478
20599 20479
20599 20480
20599 20481
20599 20482
20599 20483
20599 20484
20599 20485
20599 20486
20599 20487
20599 20488
20600 20461
20600 20462
20600 20463
20600 20464
20600 20465
20600 20478
20600 20479
20600 20480
20600 20481
20600 20482
20600 20483
20600 20484
20600 20485
20600 20486
20600 20487
20600 20488
20601 20461
20601 20462
20601 20463
20601 20464
20601 20465
20601 20478
20601 20479
20601 20480
20601 20481
20601 20482
20601 20483
20601 20484
20601 20485
20601 20486
20601 20487
20601 20488
20602 20461
20602 20462
20602 20463
20602 20464
20602 20465
20602 20478
20602 20479
20602 20480
20602 20481
20602 20482
20602 20483
20602 20484
20602 20485
20602 20486
20602 20487
20602 20488
20650 20646
20650 20647
20650 20648
20650 20649
20650 20668
20650 20669
20650 20670
20650 20671
20651 20646
20651 20647
20651 20648
20651 20649
20651 20668
20651 20669
20651 20670
20651 20671
20652 20646
20652 20647
20652 20648
20652 20649
20652 20668
20652 20669
20652 20670
20652 20671
20653 20646
20653 20647
20653 20648
20653 20649
20653 20668
20653 20669
20653 20670
20653 20671
20656 20646
20656 20647
20656 20648
20656 20649
20656 20668
20656 20669
20656 20670
20656 20671
20657 20646
20657 20647
20657 20648
20657 20649
20657 20668
20657 20669
20657 20670
20657 20671
20659 20646
20659 20647
20659 20648
20659 20649
20659 20668
20659 20669
20659 20670
20659 20671
20660 20646
20660 20647
20660 20648
20660 20649
20660 20668
20660 20669
20660 20670
20660 20671
20661 20646
20661 20647
20661 20648
20661 20649
20661 20668
20661 20669
20661 20670
20661 20671
20662 20646
20662 20647
20662 20648
20662 20649
20662 20668
20662 20669
20662 20670
20662 20671
20663 20646
20663 20647
20663 20648
20663 20649
20663 20668
20663 20669
20663 20670
20663 20671
20664 20646
20664 20647
20664 20648
20664 20649
20664 20668
20664 20669
20664 20670
20664 20671
20665 20646
20665 20647
20665 20648
20665 20649
20665 20668
20665 20669
20665 20670
20665 20671
20666 20646
20666 20647
20666 20648
20666 20649
20666 20668
20666 20669
20666 20670
20666 20671
20667 20646
20667 20647
20667 20648
20667 20649
20667 20668
20667 20669
20667 20670
20667 20671

Don
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Valued Member
Canada
23 Posts
Posted 01/14/2018   07:39 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DeEll to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Good morning TJ and Don,
There is a lot more to this issue than meets the eye! Personally, I believe that it is one of the most overlooked and misunderstood issues from it's era.
If you take a look at the body of research uncovered on this issue by Max Johl, you will find that there were actually two separate printings.
When the stamp was first produced, the 100 subject sheet had to be wetted down twice in order to accommodate the printing of the two plates, hence the two plate numbers, one for the "frame" plate and one for the "vignette" plate. The problem arose from the fact that because the paper was wetted twice, the result was considerable shrinkage, which sometimes prevented the vignette from properly keying into the frame and therefore excessive waste. Therefore, any examples of this issue that do not have the vignettes keying properly into the frame are most likely from the first set of printings. Also the plate numbers from the first printing have an "F" before them as is clearly shown in TJ's example at the beginning of this thread.
A second printing was therefore produced which Johl calls the "second plate layout". This time, in order to reduce the shrinkage, poor keying and subsequent wastage, the new sheets consisted of 2 panes of 50 subjects and the grain of the paper was rotated 90 degrees.
What the Bureau ended up with was two different sized stamps from the two different printings of this issue!
It is quite easy to tell the two issues apart because the stamps from the first printing measure 36.375 mm long whereas the stamps from the second printing measure 37 mm long and their plate numbers have the "F" following them!




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United States
125 Posts
Posted 01/14/2018   08:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add TJA1523 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for the help! More than I was able to find on my own. I appreciate the numbers. I'm going to show the entire block on the second. Also going to get on the website you referred to Don more later today. I appreciate the F lettering explanation. Treina



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Posted 01/14/2018   08:05 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The letter 'F' in plate numbers are found on other plates of the era and designated that those plates were hardened.
Don
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United States
973 Posts
Posted 01/14/2018   11:15 am  Show Profile Check cfrphoto's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add cfrphoto to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Check pages 85 and 86 of the 2016 United States Stamp Society Durland Plate Number Catalog provides a complete description of the first and second plate layouts but omits mention of paper grain. Durland gives additonal information about placement of the "F" on each plate. Because smaller black vignette plates were used, the black "F" appears in combination with the red "F" on the top left and alone on the top right. The Scott US Specialist catalog goes into more detail about the plate layouts, but does not specify, except by inference the plate layout for 703a, 703b and 703c. By inference 703b lake is from the first plate layout and 703c pairs imperf vertically are from the second plate layout.

On-line access to fully reviewed information including open issues or disagreements would be helpful. Existing catalogs fall woefully short. Unfortunately, a catalog is a report, presumably from an underlying database. Unfortunately, no existing stamp catalog appears to be backed up by a (searchable) database.
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Posted 01/14/2018   11:28 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the additional info Clark. I stopped buying new catalogs and reference materials about 4 years ago when my prognosis was 6 months to live. When you have expiration date stamped on the bottom of your foot and are racking up extraordinary medical costs on your family, you stop spending money on hobby stuff. So I obviously agree with digital solutions and would love to have the option for an affordable, short term subscription.

I would also assume that having an affordable, short term subscription would be an ideal solution for those who only want access to lookup a few things in their collections up (as opposed to those who are more serious students).
Don
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4705 Posts
Posted 01/14/2018   11:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The four volumes of the Johl book are online at the Siegel site. Click on "research" and then "the Siegel Encyclopedia". Volume II has a lot of info on this issue.
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Posted 01/14/2018   11:46 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The Johl books are also available for download from the Stamp Smarter Library http://www.stampsmarter.com/learnin...me_USID.html
Don
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125 Posts
Posted 01/15/2018   6:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add TJA1523 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Alot of good help and resources for this one. That Stamp Smarter is great! Took me a bit to navigate, but the way they organized a huge Subject. Anyway just a side note I measured the Stamps based on the info received. Measurements really varied, the block with the f and the single are small, equal to 36 mm. The second block, measured the 36.3. I did have one other 703, already in an album, and that was large standing next to the 36 mm stamp at 37.1 mm.

Still reading up on things. Thanks a bunch Trein
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