Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Questions About Cancellations On Stamps Of The Austrian Offices In Crete.

 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Valued Member
Learn More...
United States
241 Posts
Posted 01/12/2020   8:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add EMaxim to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Here are two. Postmark on the 10c: could it be Salonica? If so, was it normal for the office there to use stamps of the offices in Crete, rather than, say, stamps of Lombardy-Venetia?


For this 15c: Postmark seems to be Jerusalem. Scott suggests that stamps of the offices in Crete could be used by Austrian offices anywhere in the Ottoman Empire, hence in Palestine. Is that so?
Send note to Staff

Valued Member
Learn More...
United States
241 Posts
Posted 01/12/2020   8:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EMaxim to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a (slightly) more readable scan of the 10c. (Color reduced.)
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Learn More...
United States
241 Posts
Posted 01/12/2020   8:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EMaxim to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
rather than, say, stamps of Lombardy-Venetia?


Or stamps of the offices in Ottoman Empire?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
2863 Posts
Posted 01/12/2020   9:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The so-called "Austrian Post Offices in Crete" stamps were really no such thing.

These stamps were simply stamps in French currency that were used along with Turkish currency stamps in many Austro-Hungarian post offices across the Ottoman Empire including the three offices in Crete.

The name is just a tradition that several catalogue publishers adhere to.

I guess the name stuck early on because they first appeared in 1903 at a time when there was huge international interest in the events in Crete and there had recently been issues specially produced for use in Crete by the local British (1898) and Russian (1899) administrations and by the Italian (1900) and French (1902) Post Offices.

However, the Austrian post offices (and earlier Austrian Lloyd Agency offices) had been in operation in Crete since 1858.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Nigel
Valued Member
Learn More...
United States
241 Posts
Posted 01/12/2020   9:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EMaxim to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, Nigel. Clears things up quite nicely. And if the 10c is indeed Salonica (Ottoman till 1912) Austrian offices might use stamps either in centimes or in para/piastre?

Eric
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
2863 Posts
Posted 01/12/2020   10:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Thank you, Nigel. Clears things up quite nicely. And if the 10c is indeed Salonica (Ottoman till 1912) Austrian offices might use stamps either in centimes or in para/piastre?

Eric


Yes, absolutely. Not all the Austrian offices used stamps in both currencies but many did.

I've just checked my Salonica postmarks and I have four from this set in Turkish currency (1 piastre x2, 2 piastres, 10 piastres) and three in French currency (5 centimes x2, 10 centimes).

The office in Salonica stayed open until December 1914.

I agree that your stamp has a Salonica postmark. The full postmark would read "SALONICH I" at the top.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Nigel
Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
28451 Posts
Posted 01/12/2020   10:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The so-called "Austrian Post Offices in Crete" stamps were really no such thing.


Confirmation.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Learn More...
United States
241 Posts
Posted 01/13/2020   11:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EMaxim to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Greatly appreciate this information from both. Enhances my understanding of offices abroad, whether Austrian, British, or anyone's. Henceforth I'll be paying extra attention to postmarks. My plan is to keep stamps of foreign offices with stamps of the host nation: adds to the picture of political and economic circumstances of the time.

Related question: Why did the Austrians print stamps in French currency? Assuming these offices in the Ottoman Empire were used mainly by expats or commercial agents, who would (I also assume) be holding and using mostly the local currency, I can see why stamps in para/piaster were needed. But why centimes?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
2863 Posts
Posted 01/13/2020   12:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Related question: Why did the Austrians print stamps in French currency? Assuming these offices in the Ottoman Empire were used mainly by expats or commercial agents, who would (I also assume) be holding and using mostly the local currency, I can see why stamps in para/piaster were needed. But why centimes?

Hi Eric,

I've wondered this too and I don't know the reason.

I suspect their customers were dealing and writing contracts in various currencies and I suppose there must have been an advantage to both the post offices and their customers to offer stamps denominated in a currency that was stronger than the Turkish lira.

This was the time of the Latin Monetary Union including the French franc and Austro-Hungary was an associate so maybe this choice helped their local accounting as well as increasing profits.

However, it may just be that the French franc was in general use amongst merchants and that the Austrian post offices were at risk of losing business to the French offices?

I'd really like to learn more about this if anyone can help.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Nigel
Valued Member
Learn More...
United States
241 Posts
Posted 01/13/2020   1:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EMaxim to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Certainly the French franc was in wide use at the time, acceptable virtually everywhere. The existence of a Latin Monetary Union, however, and with Austro-Hungarian affiliation, is for me a piece of news. Something to look into. Thanks for the tip and for all your other help.

Eric
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
148 Posts
Posted 01/13/2020   3:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Germania to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The monetary situation was fairly complicated, at least it was in Palestine. Here is an excerpt from the book "Handbook of Holy Land Philately Foreign Post Offices in Palestine 1840-1918", Vol I:


Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Learn More...
United States
241 Posts
Posted 01/13/2020   6:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EMaxim to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sheds still more light on the matter. Helps explain why Austrian offices in the Ottoman Empire would be provided with stamps in both Ottoman and French currencies. But the pages that Germania has shared lead me to ask a more basic question. If I wanted to send a letter from Jerusalem to, say, Vienna, did I have the option of using either the Ottoman or Austrian post office and its respective stamps? Or was the choice of postal systems restricted in some way, by the sender's nationality for instance?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
28451 Posts
Posted 01/13/2020   9:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Germania.
Applause for your Image naming regime.
Handbook of Holy Land Philately.
One can easily link the image to bibliography one may wish to source...
A very rare occurrence.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2020 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2020 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.42 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05