Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

India 4 Anna Bisect On Part Cover.

Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 48 / Views: 1,459Next Topic
Page: of 4
Valued Member

New Zealand
11 Posts
Posted 12/20/2021   9:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Sterling to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Acquired this piece in a job lot of British India Covers - India SG 45 - 45a. I have a couple of questions firstly is the stamps tied to the cover, secondly if the postmark can be identified. From my observation I have never seen a bisect used outside of the India P.O. in Strait Settlements. Any insights thanks in advance.


*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***
Send note to Staff

Valued Member
Canada
471 Posts
Posted 12/20/2021   9:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Casey Magoo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe I'm crazy, but I think I see two ghost perfs right in the middle of where a whole stamp would have been, along the bottom. Careful removal by knife, steam and/or other tricks?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
my best friend has four legs
and a soft pillow
Edited by Casey Magoo - 12/20/2021 9:30 pm
Bedrock Of The Community
Learn More...
Australia
35190 Posts
Posted 12/20/2021   9:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Straits Settlements
1855
Cancelled at Singapore, Penang, Malacca
4 annas Black as 2as
They are all of considerable rarity.

1856-1864
4annas Black as 2as
Sinapore, Penang, Malacca.
Covers bears dates between 1859 and 1863

Please post an image of the full cover, front and back


Curiously, I recognise the handwriting........
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by rod222 - 12/20/2021 9:53 pm
Bedrock Of The Community
Learn More...
Australia
35190 Posts
Posted 12/20/2021   9:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Robson Lowe fails to ID any bisect of this stamp
outside the Straits.

The handwriting I recognise, appears on East India Stamps,
and with such values, as shown on yours, I would have expected
"Stamped" to be handwritten across the stamps.

This is not so, ergo my suggestion may be the original stamp has been removed, and this pair added after.

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by rod222 - 12/20/2021 10:04 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1308 Posts
Posted 12/20/2021   10:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add No1philatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Please scan the whole/ part cover, front and back. Thank you.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by No1philatelist - 12/20/2021 10:06 pm
Valued Member
New Zealand
11 Posts
Posted 12/20/2021   10:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Sterling to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is not a full cover it is part of a cover as the image uploaded.
Back of the part cover.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1308 Posts
Posted 12/20/2021   10:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add No1philatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I believe the date of Dec.6th is marked by stamps. The black GPO cancel shows Dec 18,1857 and appears to be on top of the red cancel date of Jan 12, 1855,56,58? Hmmm!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by No1philatelist - 12/20/2021 10:57 pm
Bedrock Of The Community
Learn More...
Australia
35190 Posts
Posted 12/20/2021   11:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The red Postmark, a tad outside my reference (1856)
I only have the "Square with indented sides" "Month before day"
1836 - 1843
Reorganised Penny Post from 1794
(Twopenny post from 1801)
Yours appears to be similar, but for later 1856 with code "B" at bottom
Willcocks or Whitney fail to ID that one.

Still researching the Black Pmk



Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by rod222 - 12/20/2021 11:33 pm
Bedrock Of The Community
Learn More...
Australia
35190 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   12:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Guess:

Cover is a letter from George Curnar Barnes
(Commissioner of the CIS-SUTLEY States , India (Punjab)

Writing a letter to MARGARET STAPYLTON
Devonshire Street and (Near Portland Place?) or vice versa
London. 1856

What I do not understand are the two backstamps and why the 25 day
difference to the two marks.

We may have to contact SCF members Ron and Eunice Shanahan
the early Brit experts, on the backstamps.



Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by rod222 - 12/21/2021 01:01 am
Valued Member
New Zealand
11 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   02:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Sterling to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This item was in a group of about twenty five British India Covers. There were a couple of mutiny covers in the lot. I had researched it with all the resources that I have and did come up with a probable location of Devonshire Street in Portland Place but could not decipher the name of the person it was addressed to. Excellent detective work rod222.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Bedrock Of The Community
Learn More...
Australia
35190 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   04:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A lot of guesswork,
but they were married in 1856, so it is a decent odds it would be them,
or close relations.
The Genealogy link does not allow dates until you join, as per usual.

The GPO Postmark, still not identified, I wonder if it is British or?
The date plug there, the "8" looks inverted.

Deciding the red receiving postmark is 1858
So he may be writing to his mother in law

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by rod222 - 12/21/2021 04:28 am
Bedrock Of The Community
Learn More...
Australia
35190 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   04:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There is (apparently) a lot of Hijinx going on with this fragment.
As No1Phil pointed out, the black GPO is over the red Pmk.

Now to deceive the viewer, with the red underneath of 1858
the scallywag has added a very convenient fleuron, covering the "8"
It looks lonely and out of place there, to me.

Were fleurons used that early in Brit Postmarks?

If, it were a genuine use of a 4 anna bisect, would it be hanging around in a cover job lot?
Methinks no, it would be in an advanced collection.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by rod222 - 12/21/2021 04:48 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2813 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   05:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Methinks or pareidolia thinks that he sees an 8 or 6 in the diamond lozenge cancel on the left stamp. There is nothing like that visible on the bisect. If you have a blacklight, see if you can tell if the lighter continuations of the bottom lozenge bars below the bisect cut match the dark parts.

The staining on the cover below the bisect cut does roughly match the shape of a lozenge killer, but staining in that area is often a sign of a forger at work.

rod wrote: "I would have expected "Stamped" to be handwritten across the stamps.
My understanding was that it was to prevent a messenger sent to the P.O. with a letter from stealing the stamps for resale and reuse. The manuscript security mark is common enough but certainly is not on all used stamps and covers of the period. Perhaps that small ink smudge in the southwest corner of the left stamp might have been what was used.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Bedrock Of The Community
Learn More...
Australia
35190 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   05:48 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
rod wrote: "I would have expected "Stamped" to be handwritten across the stamps.
My understanding was that it was to prevent a messenger sent to the P.O. with a letter from stealing the stamps for resale and reuse.


That's how I read it HB,
What we have here are 3 instances of script from the same hand, in my opinion.
The flourish of the "S" and the downward stroke of the lower case "T"
crossed at the top, is undeniable.

Now, whether that hand is from the sender, or an aide de camp
we shall never know, yet I believe a personal letter would most probably, be by the sender.

I offer the other two instances, for your consideration.
The added evidence of having the extraordinary circumstance
of 3 instances of hand script, may be explained by the sender being a commissioner.
Vast amounts of correspondence would have been sent and received.


Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Bedrock Of The Community
Learn More...
Australia
35190 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   05:56 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If you have a blacklight, see if you can tell if the lighter continuations of the bottom lozenge bars below the bisect cut match the dark parts.


I am wondering, if there is some way to indicate evidence under the stamps....part script of "stamped" perhaps.
Or a part pmk.

My paltry collection of 4 anna blacks, show the same hardly distinguishable postmarks.
Most pmks of this era show Barred Diamonds with numerals.

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by rod222 - 12/21/2021 05:58 am
Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
1235 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   06:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tim H to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The stamps don't look tied to piece, the small bit of cancel under the entire 4a stamp look highly dubious, and was the 6a rate a valid one. I'd put it down as a fake; the stamps did not originate on thus piece.

Worth keeping as an example of the forger's craft.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Page: of 4 Previous TopicReplies: 48 / Views: 1,459Next Topic  
Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2022 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2022 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.23 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05