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India 4 Anna Bisect On Part Cover.

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Pillar Of The Community
India
557 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   06:37 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Joy Daschaudhuri to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The G.P.O. A.M. postmark dt. DE 18 1857 is Indian.

It is the dispatch mark of Mumbai GPO [Giles G3 (ex-BG3)], recorded used in 1844–59 in black, blue & green (very rare) ink.
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Pillar Of The Community
India
557 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   06:39 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Joy Daschaudhuri to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sterling, post higher resolution scan of both the cancels on stamps.

Since it was mutiny time, nothing can be ruled out.
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Edited by Joy Daschaudhuri - 12/21/2021 07:33 am
Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   06:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The G.P.O. A.M. postmark dt. DE 18 1857 is Indian.

It is the dispatch mark of Mumbai GPO [Giles G3 (ex-BG3)], recorded used in 1844–59 in black, blue & green (very rare) ink.


Aha! fabulous. Thank you.
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Pillar Of The Community
India
557 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   07:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Joy Daschaudhuri to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The cover was carried by Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company mail steamer SS Pottinger (in service 1846–69) which departed from Mumbai on Dec 18,1857, reached Adan on Dec 31 and As Suways on Jan 7,1858.

Generally it took 5/6 days from Al Iskandariyyah to Marseille but in this case it was quicker.
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Pillar Of The Community
India
557 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   07:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Joy Daschaudhuri to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
From Jan 19,1857 to May 31,1863, the basic rate from India to England via Marseille was 6A for letters weighing upto 7.09gm (¼oz).
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   3:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Great information


Quote:
The designation "RMS" has been used since 1840.[10] In 1850 contracts were awarded to private companies. Having the title "RMS" was seen as a mark of quality and a competitive advantage, because the mail had to be on time.


Was curious SS Pottinger, was not "RMS"

SS Pottinger was a Paddle Steamer.

As Suways = Suez (Steamed down that canal myself)
Al Iskandariyyah = Alexandria.
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Edited by rod222 - 12/21/2021 3:05 pm
Valued Member
New Zealand
11 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   3:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Sterling to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all for your contribution to this posting. Joy Daschaudhuri fabulous information on the Indian GPO AM postmark and the correct 6 Anna rate applied to the piece and the routing information. As a guess could the cancel be Renouf Type 5 diamond composed of lines running parallel to the long diagonal having an office number inset used in the Northern Circle United Provinces-Punjab.

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Valued Member
New Zealand
11 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   4:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Sterling to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am wondering, if there is some way to indicate evidence under the stamps....part script of "stamped" perhaps.
Or a part pmk.

My paltry collection of 4 anna blacks, show the same hardly distinguishable postmarks.
Most pmks of this era show Barred Diamonds with numerals.

rod222 best I could do with the backlighting.

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Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
3745 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   4:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Is it possible the cover (Stampless) was sent from London;and the 6p was postage due ?......Or perhaps it was forwarded mail
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Edited by perf12 - 12/21/2021 5:31 pm
Valued Member
New Zealand
11 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   5:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Sterling to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A better image of the back of the piece with a Bombay GPO Giles 3 cancel.

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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   6:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Sterling,
a thoroughly enjoyable trip, has been this thread.
For a while I was in the high Punjab,
Then aboard a paddle steamer, with the "thump thump" of the reciprocating steam engine, felt through the deck boards,
steaming up the Suez. With barking traders, in their canoes,
hawking wares to the passengers.

Good meaty stuff!

So...what is next? Are you inclined to have it professionally appraised? and how would one find such a business?


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Edited by rod222 - 12/21/2021 6:37 pm
Valued Member
New Zealand
11 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   8:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Sterling to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes rod222 it has been an enjoyable ride so far but I am not finished with this piece. Firstly I have scanned the image to 600 dpi and I am reasonably confident that the stamps are tied to the cover especially the stamp on the left at the bottom between the R and A of Four Anna and at the top between I and P of India Postage where the postmark travel on to the top of the cover therefore that ties the pair. Secondly there are these red ink stains that may have come off the wet post mark that is barely legible to the right of the piece that moves up to the bottom couple couple of perfs on the left stamp. With your contribution about the sender and the recipient does make sense as he was posted out in the CIS- Sutlej area of the Punjab it is more than likely that cancellation is Renouf and Martin cancellation Type 5 still to be confirmed.
Joy Daschaudhuri has cleared up the issue around the Bombay GPO Giles post mark - route and rate and the name of the paddleboat and time taken to reach the destination which is awesome.
The red cancel on the back is of London District Office - Old Type of stamp ( 8 NT 8 is delivery at 8 pm Evening Delivery Jan 12th 1858. I am not sure what the bottom alphabet B or number 8 is needs clarification- Resource is Postmarks of the British Isles 1840 - 1876 by John G Hendy available freely as an online resource. At the end of the day the elephant in the room why is this not recorded in any resource i.e Robson Lowe - Jal Cooper - Hausberg - Renof - Martin. The timing of this correspondence was during the Indian Mutiny of 1857 a tumultuous time in India so nothing should be discounted it could well be a fake as eluded to by other members in the forum or genuine. I will wait to see if any more information comes to hand and if I am confident enough will send it to the RPSL for an opinion.
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Edited by Sterling - 12/21/2021 8:18 pm
Valued Member
New Zealand
11 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   8:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Sterling to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Correction: Should read stamp on the left.
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Pillar Of The Community
6329 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   9:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What does this look like under UV light, both long-wave and short-wave?
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Valued Member
Australia
283 Posts
Posted 12/21/2021   10:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Penguins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for pointing this one out to us Rod.

Unfortunately it is a bit later than we have much knowledge about, as we have very little beyond the 1840's.

However, a very interesting thread and the last reply by Sterling seems to have covered it all.

As usual a good result and lots of postings.

Good on the community.

Cheers

Eunice and Ron
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