10 PFenning Michel # 86(I)d And 86(Ii) A, C, D, E, F, G Revisited

I have a few questions and observations that hopefully will help with positive identification of this series of Germania stamps.

First of all, I have separated all the stamps according to the date of the cancels
My primary concern is properly identifying Michels # 86(I)d, 86(II)e, and 86(II)g. for obvious reasons. I have a copy of Michels Farbenfuhrer color guide. I am using a Michel Specialized catalogue albeit a bit dated issued in 2007.

*Minr# 86(I)d blackish rose to to dark rose red (June 25,1913)
-Michels color guide does not list the above stated colors. Can
anyone familiar with this issue regarding the translation of the
colors and the differences between German and English color
designation identify the corresponding color from the michel
color guide in German that matches the English designated
color, found in the specialized catalogue I have the same issue
for 86(II)g. where red vermillion is not listed
*Minr# 86(II)f/g (1.4.19) and (15.10.18) are the dates listed for these two
issues. Michel #s 86(II) a/c/d, and e are all listed as
being issued in 1915. Is it safe to say that any cancel on the
10pf Germania that dates from (15.10.18) and onward are
guaranteed to identify as either 86(II)e or a 86(II)g as a result of
a 3 to 4 year gap from the other 10 pf varieties in the series?
*Minr # 86(II)g using an UV light is claimed to identify this variety. Exactly how
or what am I supposed to see? I have approximately 20
possible candidates for the 86(II)g. when I place them under the
UV light I find two distinct effects on all the 10 pf stamps that are
eligible by date alone. One set exhibits paper that is very dull in
flourescence in comparison to the other group. The ink in the
bright white paper group does seem to flouresce a vermilliion
color to a degree. Can anyone add more information regarding
the UV ID of 86(II)g. I feel im missing something. When its too
good to be true it almost always is...lol?

I would also like to add that when I separate by color all the possible candidates that have been isolated by date with regards to Mi#86(II)f/g there are visibly two and only two distinct colors. One that closely matches what I think is a dark rose red and another group that seems to be a yellowish carmine red?
Am I on the right track for positive ID of 86(II)g? I will post pics as soon as I have a decent scanner and thank you for any and all input

Considering the CV of those issues (€3,000 - €11,000 for used), it's highly unlikely that's what you have.


How old is your color guide? They changed the color names and reference numbers at some point, so older color guides won't match the current color names.


Same question as above, because those are in the current color guide at p. 41.


In the current color guide, it's at p. 35.


No. Still far more likely to be the common varieties.


With these issues, it's very difficult to ID a single stamp without being able to place it next to known exemplars, since there are so many closely-related varieties. And I certainly wouldn't believe I had an 86 II g unless an expert was willing to certify it.

To give you an example from another red issue – MiNr. 47 has 11 shades, all of which fluoresce differently under UV light. With multiples, it's easy to see they're different.

But it's still very difficult to ID which is which without sending them to an expert who has exemplars of all the shades and experience in IDing them.

im not sure what year my color guide is but it only has 19 pages and does not list red vermillion but it does list vermillion which is in the orange yellow spectrum not the red spectrum

Lol just my luck.....out of the 400 plus 10 pf specimens I have in my collection, none of them have cancels prior to (15.10.18) or after (2.3.15) to use as a reference

My newest Michel specialized catalog is 2020. In this catalog is a note stating that the correct color guide to use in identifying Michel Numbers 1-337 (which includes all the Germania issues) is the 36th edition. The most current color guide is the 38th, but the color guide is usually several years behind the catalog. You need to match the color guide edition to the catalog year.

And after all that I can only say that the color guide is only good enough to show you a semblance of what a particular color looks like but is not good enough to make a positive identification possible. The inks and the paper used to print the color guide are not the same as the inks and the papers used to print the stamps. Also, the Germania stamps were almost all printed intaglio and the color guide is not, so another problem.

One final rant. Michel 86 II g was first listed in the 2002 catalog. How could a new color be "discovered" after more than 80 years?

If you really want to get into the weeds with the colors of the 10 Pig Germania stamp, here is a link to a paper:

https://www.vpex.info/Farbsystemati...15_final.pdf

I think this is the current Michel Color Guide (edition 38)



It is useful if you have the Michel catalog in German (the English translation of the color names can confuse you)
It is easier to find 86II g color (dunkelrot) by looking for examples of stamps issued during the occupation of Romania in the WWI war.(Michel 2019 ed.)

A site that can help you is "stampsx.com" (in German)
I found on this website what "g" color looks like (in reality and UV) - the 2 bottom stamps.