K..now I Need Super Help

What are these and where should I put them..?
(now thats a loaded question)..

You can put them in Stampvirgin's house.

Persian (Iran) stamps. Counterfeits abound.

The Belgian semipostal you showed in the other thread, by the way, is one of the few early Belgian semipostal sets that did not suffer from counterfeiting.

so are you saying these are counterfeit?

No, I didn't check your scan to see if it is a counterfeit. On many of the early Persian stamps, counterfeits/forgeries run anywhere from 50%-99%. It's not just on a few sets, but covers a significant time period. It's a real mess trying to pick out genuine Persians stamps out of collections. Most Persian collections I've seen are a mixture of genuine and fake, even within the same set.

Given the size of the current scan, I cannot say for certain, but it does look like both are forgeries (the most common forgery of the different forgeries).

Can you provide a close-up scan of ONLY the bottom right corner? On the bottom frame as it links up to the bottom right corner, if there is a break in the link, then it is the common variety forgery.

The original stamp ID, is Iran #423 and #427, issued in 1906.

k

Is this any help? comments welcome.

3 chahis issue

The left stamp has a broken frame,
the right has a joined frame.

I have a question---This topic has come up before and as always the prevalence of counterfeits and fakes of the early Persian stamps is stated.

What was it that caused this to be such a problem for the stamps of Persia? I know that fakes exist of other stamps of other countries, but just why were the Persian issues so extensively faked?

i can see broken frames lines in the bottom corners of both those stamps at the top of the thread. isn't it obvious?
and why send them to me? I don't want them.

I only slab, store in the vault (with silica gel) real stamps.

oh btw.. PEOPLE!! to store your stamp and keep moisture down the tried and true method is to put a hand full of rice in a cheese cloth next to your stuff. If I have to explain the science of it... google it.
My wife and her mother before her has done this for years and years to keep things like sugar and salt dry.

Not the frame LINE, but the outer frame that is made up of diamonds/ovals. The tell-tale sign is the break in the lower right corner. This break does NOT appear in any of the other corners. The reason a higher resolution pic of the corner is necessary is because it is also possible that local under-inking and plate wear can produce the "appearance" of a break.



Just carrying on the "joke" about sending stamps to you for safekeeping!
k

Yes, in your pic, the stamp at right is one of the other known forgeries. It is readily identified by the fact that the frame LINES (not the outer frame) are joined at the corners instead of a gap.

Many of the original printing stones/plates of that time period fell into private hands and were then used to produce counterfeits. The great majority of these counterfeits were produced and sold in Europe. In most cases, the stones were "retouched", sometimes with a different color shade, different paper, different stamp spacing... So while most counterfeits have been documented, it is still tedious because of the large quantities produced/distributed.

One thing led to another, especially with the handstamps/overprints. You will also find fake handstamps/overprints added on to what were originally unoverprinted genuine stamps! So even if the stamp design looks genuine, you still have to examine the overprint to make sure that is genuine as well!

One interesting tidbit about Persian counterfeits, one fake stamp was actually a complete fabrication of the counterfeiters. The printing plate was confiscated and sent to Iran. During a postage shortage, that plate was actually taken out of storage, modified, and then used to produce VALID postage stamps! The stamps were overprinted before being sold. One of the few cases were a bogus plate was used later on to produce genuine stamps! Today, these stamps are Iran #617-621 in the Scott catalog.

okay, the outer frame not the inner frame, got it..

as for safekeeping, I only safekeep REAL stamps.

with that said, I blew up the initial photo and don't see a break in the OUTER frame line

lower right scans
Any help?

Thanks you Gord! Yes, both are definitely fakes; a clear break, not a ink drop-out, smudge, or plate wear. Occasionally you will run into a genuine stamp that appears to have a break, but the break is due to other causes.



But it's real fake stamp!

If you look at the left stamp in Rod's pic and examine the bottom-most frame, you will also see breaks (especially near the left corner). Those breaks are caused by plate-wear, drop-outs, and smudge-outs.

You will also notice in the overprint, that the "P" and "E" are not level, and the inking is blurred -- all consistent with genuine overprints. However, I am not knowledgeable enough to confirm the overprint in the left stamp is genuine. It does look genuine to me.