Definitives From Around The World

I'd say "it depends." If you print a black border around remaining stocks of definitives, it is a sign of respect toward the deceased, but the stamps are still definitives, to my eye.

If you print up new stocks, for the purpose of overprinting a border, or you incorporate a black border into the stamp's design, I think you are heading toward Commemorativeland.

I think of the 1934 King Albert issue of the Belgian Congo as an example. That strikes me as a commemorative stamp.

Now, just to throw some gas on the fire, the original issue of the Hindenburg stamp, October 1, 1932, was issued in honor of his 85th birthday...still a definitive series? Then, in 1933 and following years, the design is still used...if you answered "commemorative" for the 1932 issue, is it still commemorative? Or does it switch?

Correct, from the 1900's - 1930's this was the UPU standard which a lot of Countries followed. As evidence by the US Washington / Franklin series and most of the Commemorative's from that era followed suit with the 3 colors

Green = Postcard Rate
Red = Domestic Letter
Blue = International

Among the US Commemorative series were the Lexington Concord, Jamestown, Pilgrim set, Louisiana Purchase, Pan American, Pan Pacific, etc.

Green = 1 cent
Red = 2 Cent
Blue = 5 cent

A young collector asked an old advanced philatelist how he made his collection so advanced and valuable. The old guy had a look at the young nuisance and said, "Well, young man, it was in 1940 when I got a bunch of old letters from an uncle, I soaked off the definitive stamps, dried them and put them in a presentation folder. I spent four days on this, after which I sold the definitive stamps at my school for a cool 4 dollars. "The next morning, I invested those four dollars in some more definitive stamps on paper. I spent the next four days on them and sold them afterwards for 6 dollars. I continued this system for a month, by the end of which I'd accumulated a fortune of 200 dollars. "Then my uncle died and left me his collection of definitive stamps worth two million dollars..."

New plates.
No other info in the March 2005 Bulletin.




No, they were a FDC producer of special covers in the 1940's-50's, not for the Post Office.
I have no information on how that sheet came about.

Here is another High value definitive, The highest value ever issued by Royal Mail.



Issued on March 2nd, 2003.
House of Questa by Lithography
Designed by B.Craddock
Perf 14x14½, with two elliptical holes on each horizontal side
The Granite Paper contains flourescent coloured fibres which can clearly be seen adding to it's superb design.
It is die-stamped '10' in braiile.

Londonbus1

LB thanks for all the technical info, I appreciate it.


@Cjd Even though the 1932 Hindenburg set was issued
when indeed he was 85years old (born 1847) was it issued to honour his 85th Birthday ?

According to Michel #467 - 473 were regular definitives with
no end of validity, in fact until the downfall of the Third Reich.
Same with the 1933 Hindenburg series 482 - 495 and the 1933/36 series
512 - 528.

The Hindenburg memorial stamps issued Sept 4, 1934 Michel 548 - 553
on the other hand were only valid for postage until December 31, 1935.
This would be another indicator that they should be considered as
commemoratives.

Nobody likes my jokes? I thought they were funny.

How about some Japanese?

I only base it on the one-line note in Scott Classic that so states.

Probably a better source than Wikipedia, but perhaps not the definitive answer.

This could get very interesting.
After reading the latest posts I can see a trend developing.
Catalogues do not agree on too much, one to the other. So it can be with this subject too, plus everyone else's definition of it.
Israel Post issued the 50th Anniversary stamp as a definitive. In all formats, that's what it is. Yet as Litho so rightly points out, it was issued to commemorate something.
So too the Hindenburg Memorial issue and [maybe too] the Birthday issue.
So let's take it a step further and make it even more complicated.
Lithograving said the Miniature Sheet to celebrate 40 years of the Machin was a commemorative issue. He is right.
Yet the Ruby definitive was issued for the Ruby Anniversary and yet it is obviously a definitive and appears on all lists as such.
Let's look at it another way.
If I cut out the two £1 definitives from the sheet it would give me a Se-Tenant pair. They would be of the same design, same value but just a different colour. That colour would then be the difference between being a commemorative or a definitive ? And if that pair were seperated and placed in a Machin collection of definitives, would anyone know the difference ?

In the year 2000, a two-coloured Machin was issued to celebrate the new Millenium. Royal Mail issued this as a definitive to replace the regular 1st Class value for a period of time. It is still valid of course although no longer available at Post Offices.
And yet SG catalogues lists this as a commemorative ! It can be found on most 'definitive' lists but not in the main listing of Machin definitives. It has not been given a 'Y' prefix like other machins.
Many other 'definitive' stamps can be found in sheets commemorating something...and these issues appear to be the borderline cases.

Do we go with the issuing authority, the catalogues [which don't agree one to the other] or our thoughts and opinions ??

Indeed, will we ever be able to truly define all 'definitives' ?

Londonbus1

Edited to say I had a temporary memory loss earlier. 1st and 2nd class Definitives do not have a SG 'Y' prefix !

Just to add -
A 26p Gold Machin was released in 1997 for the Queen's golden jubilee and I recently saw the Diamond jubilee 'definitives' - http://norphil.blogspot.com/2011/11...hin-for.html
So there are some areas of crossover and for Machins all that normally changes is the colour so it can be hard to spot.

Fifia,

I like those Japanese - they're air mails! Still missing some from this series in my collection.

Dave N.
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Oh, I would certainly go with my own opinion, except when I disagree with myself. Then I look to some other authority to make up my mind.

Apparently, there is a spectrum from definitive to commemorative with most lying on either extreme but a fair number of stamps somewhere in the middle. I think we need a new classification for these stamps. Definoratives? Comdeforatives? It could be a whole new collecting specialty!

Don't forget the US Postal Service has put a "wrench" in this notion. They have listed "commemoratives" and "definitives" ... and a reasonably new term "special stamps", the latter of which can have a very subjective meaning.

So far, the USPS has categorized "special stamps" as the Love, Wedding, Eid, High Value stamps, etc.

Here's another definitive that never was. The Famous Germans series from the early / mid '60s (that has already been posted) nearly had an Einstein stamp. Some essays were printed, must have been very few because they are worth multiple thousands of dollars.

Ryan

oldtriguy1960

Thanks! Would you like to have these and all others I have?

I only scanned these three. If yes please e-mail me your address..

Ryan, do you have any more info regarding that Einstein essay.

For instance , why was it not issued ? Did the family object
for some reason as was the case for the unissued Audrey Hepburn
stamp ?