Scott # 41 Perforation Differences...??

Hi guys
I have 2 covers that have the same stamp on them, a (I think) Scott # 41.

My questions are...

1 - How do you tell the difference between a Scott # 37 and # 41...???
2 - I have pics below, one has perfs of 12x12.25 and another 12x12.

I can't find a 12x12 in Unitrade, or is that just a regular #41 and the 12x12.25 is a # 41a...???

By colour they look like #41, and since no lower left dots, that would confirm it. My no. 41 have perf between 12 and 12.25, like yours.

wert; two things...

1. Scott 41 is "perf 12". If a listing in the catalogue (i.e. Unitrade) does not give a specific perforation as part of the actual entry (as in this case), then you need to look 'backwards' in the catalogue to find a section title that gives the perforation for the stamps that follow.

In this case, the title section on page 56 of the Unitrade says "1888-1897, Ottawa Printings, Perf 12". That means that perf 12 is the normal perforation for the stamps that follow, unless otherwise specified or a new perf is noted in the next section title. (see page 14-15 for "Understanding the listings".

2. "The" bible for Small Queen stamps is Canada's Postage Stamps of the Small Queen Era, 1870-1897 by John Hillson and J. Edward Nixon (2008, 237 pages, Vincent Graves Greene Philatelic Research Foundation).

On page 46, they say:





[As an aside, Nixon's Small Queen collection is up for auction March 10 by Eastern Auctions. A note on their website says the auction will be available for viewing online on February 10th]

VGG link: http://www.greenefoundation.ca/publications.html

BeeSee...
Thanks for the info..I have 4 (#41's) that have no dot, and one #37 that has a dot...That is easy for me to recognize the difference.

studystamps...
As usual, thanks for your info...

Sorry about bothering you guys, but I have a LOT to learn.

Wert, we all have a lot to learn, especially with the Small Queens! I have only recently started to seriously look at those I have.

Remember the first column of 10 stamps in the sheets of 100 of #37 do not have the dots, but these should be identifiable by the colour shade. I now find it easy to tell the difference between #37 and #41 by shade alone. I have eight 37's with a dot and one without.

I still am mystified by the papers and the perforation though.

While what Studystamps says about the perforations in Unitrade is correct, I still find that most of my #41's measure closer to 12 x 12.25 than a straight 12. And they are definitely not 41a, the rose-red shade.

I borrowed hi-res block of #41 from ebay (but must return it by midnight )

It is listed as #41 and is correct, no dots and appears vermillion.

I inserted it in AutoCAD to get accurate measurements to calculate the perforations. A block is great, because the more perforations, the more accurate the measurements are.

This is reduced in size for display purposes.



Horizontally there are 30 holes over 49.6mm, which makes perf 12.1 when calculated over 20mm (2cm).

Vertically there 27 holes over 44.2mm, which makes perf 12.22 over 2cm.

As I said above, I find most of my #41's measuring like this, which is 12 x 12 1/4 fractionally.

This makes the perf 12 in Unitrade misleading, because 41a is listed as perf 12 x 12 1/4, and probably exactly the same perforation as 41.

Of course Scott rounds everything to the nearest 1/2, and I assume they round DOWN the 12.22 to 12.0

Ah the small Queens...


Edit: Please note that in the above measurements the first hole and the last hole count as 1/2 each, because I am measuring from the center of the holes. In other words count the full holes between the lines and add 1 for the ends.

BeeSee..That was almost more than I can take in at one time..

But..Now I am getting closer to start to understand these stamps (still a long way to go)...Thanks very, very much for your info.

P.S. - Great pictures with autocad added.

Wert, I just realized you used a camera with a flash. That could make a huge difference in the shade of the stamp produced in the picture. A scanner is much more accurate.

What I mean is it is possible your stamps are #37, rather than #41.

BeeSee...I will use my scanner, but the lights you see are from my USB microscope...Wish I could turn them off some day....Great device, not so great lighting.

Maybe I should scan these covers with those stamps on it and that probably, like you said give a different colour pallet.

Well I just won a couple of 1870 dated covers on ebay, so they have to be #37 Ottawa. I will post the images when they arrive. It will be interesting to see the shade and perforations.

I would be interested in seeing them BeeSee.

Then it would maybe give me a better idea as to what mine are, #37 or #41.

Post as soon as you get them...I presume you would scan them to get a truer colour..Correct...??

Yes, with the same scanner I used for the others (I do have 2 good scanners), so the relationship will be true

BeeSee, is it possible to have a scan of #37 and #41 side by side so we can see the difference? With and without dot?

As you wish Koala:

BeeSee...Question...If you oxidise a #41 will it fade to look like a #37...???

Wert if you look at the images I did with before and after using peroxide you will see that oxidation definatly will make a 41 look like a suspected 37. https://goscf.com/t/22248&whichpage=5
Think it was well put before that if printed in todays time there would be no seperate number for 41's and all would be a sub set of 37 but all the unique distinctions is what makes these so challenging. From what we've gathered so far is with a plate dot its definatly is a 37 all others leave a ?