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Help With 5 Old Italy Stamps

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Posted 10/04/2012   2:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add UFOAirMail to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Guys I am just startuing off in this stamp thing here but I think I have a few Italian beautys here..am I right?
Top 2 stamps-2 of the stamps at top with honeycomb watermarks(page 96)....I am looking for stamp prices says wmk87 should I be looking for that or not?? Help please on this,,bit lost now..I cannot find in scotts those 2 stamps with honeycomb watermarks ..do watermarks make the stamps much more collectible/valuable?
Middle 2 stamps have wierd cancel on left one??
Bottom stamp is Italy isnt it? If so what the heck is it?
Thanks so much for your help!I think I found a few good Napoleans which I will post up later


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700 Posts
Posted 10/04/2012   2:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add new12collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The bottom stamp is interesting... I assume it to be some sort of fiscal/ revenue.
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Posted 10/04/2012   3:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add HungaryForStamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Don't have my Scott catalog handy, but bottom says "authorized delivery" so probably special delivery stamp. Fourth one looks like postage due. Third one, the weird cancel, is an overprint (the old value is overprinted with new one).

As for watermarks, they don't in general make a stamp any more valuable, it depends on the issue.
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Posted 10/04/2012   3:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think he means to say honeycomb cancels????
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Posted 10/04/2012   3:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add philb to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ok I will help you out a bit top row left stamp is Scott #26 5 centisimi from 1863-67 using scott 2008 values it catalogs 4 dollars used and 1,700 dollars mint...the second row right stamp is J7 postage due cataloging 30 cents in the 2008 catalog...but I am sure values for early Italy have gone up since then !!
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APS 070059 Life Member International Society of Guatemala Collectors I.S.G.C. #853
Valued Member
United States
294 Posts
Posted 10/04/2012   3:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add UFOAirMail to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hungary in scotts page 946 under 1863-77 next to that it says Typo Wmk 140 Perf 14 then under that it starts to show stamps and prices...well where the heck will it say Wmk 87 so I can see the value for the 2 stamps with watermark 87 Honeycomb?? This where I get lost bad in here hahaha(not funny though)
Also wouldnt the stamp be more sought after with a watermark on it vs rather than a stamp without a watermark on it? Seems more interesting for the stamp to me with more substance in the stamp..instead of a plain stamp?Shows additional history?
In general here are these common or not so much..nice stuff or not really?I want to sell off all of my all of my stamps so just trying to get a feel on whats here or not here so to say..thanks so much for your help and as always everyone!
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296 Posts
Posted 10/04/2012   3:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Art Strohmeier to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
An issue either has a wm or it doesn't. If you have what appears to be two 'identical' stamps, one with a wm and one without, you have two issues, prices of which apply to the respective atamp. If you haven't matched the you haven't id'd the stamp.

I believe wm's on issues that follow a previous issue with a wm, default to the previous issue. Maybe someone will verify.
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Posted 10/04/2012   3:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add UFOAirMail to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Phil thank you sooo much and I do truly appreciate it! I want to sell all of these babys off I just need to know what the heck I have here so doing it slow like this rather than just slap em up for sale..my gradfather told me he had alot of special stuff in those albums..I just have to fine em out
Now can I ask you something here..someone told me that stamps under the year 1900 *(especially from 1863) will be graded different,,is that stamp mint or really close to mint even though it's watermarked Phil??
For example Phil,like in coins...you have mint then they are graded near mint and so on down the line to poor...in the Scotts they are valued only for used and unused Phil..isnt there anything in btween those 2 grades becuase most of my very old stamps are like the scott 26 on top condition,,so what I am really saying here is theres no dam way I would sell something like that for $4.00 when new it sells for $1700.00..especially in that beautiful condition its in for age..I would think its worth a min of $1000.00 and witht hat watermark on her perhaps much more..am I missing something here Phil??? Please tell me what you think and I sure hope your feeling me on what I am trying to figure out and I really thank you for taking the time to get this in my head correctly Phil!
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Posted 10/04/2012   4:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi UFO, maybe I can be of a little help. But first I need to ask you something. How do you check for a watermark? I am a little puzzled by your remark about a "watermark on her"?

Pete.
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Edited by Petert4522 - 10/04/2012 4:26 pm
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Posted 10/04/2012   4:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add UFOAirMail to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Pete and I sure hope you can help me understand better and thank you!
In Scotts at the very beginning of Italy (page 946 2002 Album) they show the watermarks to look for,,and I see the Honeycomb watermark on the top 2 stamps
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Posted 10/04/2012   5:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You did not tell me HOW you look for a watermark. Do you use fluid, or what?
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Posted 10/04/2012   5:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add UFOAirMail to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Arnt those watermarks on those top 2 stamps Pete? I dont use anything but my magnifier glasses
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Posted 10/04/2012   5:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add UFOAirMail to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I found some info on the King

Victor Emmanuel II

Victor Emmanuel II, (born March 14, 1820, Turin, Piedmont, Kingdom of Sardinia—died January 9, 1878, Rome, Italy), king of Sardinia–Piedmont who became the first king of a united Italy.

Brought up in the court of his father, Charles Albert, and given a conventional monarchical education emphasizing religious and military training, he was married to his cousin Maria Adelaide, daughter of an Austrian archduke. After the Revolution of 1848, when war broke out with Austria, Victor Emmanuel was given command of a division. In the luckless campaign that followed he proved a brave soldier but an indifferent general.

Ascending the throne on his father's abdication, he consolidated his position by suppressing the republican left and paying an indemnity to Austria, which brought him considerable opprobrium in Italy. In November 1852 he made the momentous decision to turn the government over to the able, determined Count Cavour, whose skillful manoeuvres over the next few years made him king of Italy. At the decisive battles of Magenta and Solferino, he commanded the Piedmontese corps in person, and following the armistice of Villafranca, he exercised a valuable restraint on Cavour, who wanted to continue the war alone. The following year Victor Emmanuel secretly encouraged Garibaldi in the conquest of Sicily and Naples; he then led his Piedmontese army into papal territory to link up with Garibaldi in the face of an excommunication by Pius IX.

Following Cavour's death in 1861, Victor Emmanuel played a more direct role in government and despite setbacks achieved two notable triumphs: the acquisition of Venetia through war on the side of Bismarck's Prussia in 1866, and of Rome after the withdrawal of the French garrison in 1870. The occupation of Rome as the national capital so antagonized Pius IX that he refused all overtures toward reconciliation, and no meeting ever took place between the two sovereigns; nevertheless, on Victor Emmanuel's death in 1878 Pius permitted his burial in the Pantheon.
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Edited by UFOAirMail - 10/04/2012 5:28 pm
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Posted 10/04/2012   5:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
UFO, are these what you are referring to as the watermark?




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Posted 10/04/2012   5:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add UFOAirMail to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes sir Cdj..thats just wahst in the scotts they call watermark
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Posted 10/04/2012   6:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
No, those are cancels. Those stamps are used.

Watermarks can be difficult to spot, or they can be visible without much effort, but you typically look at the back of the stamp, and check for a faint design that is basically built right in to the paper. The watermark should look like the picture in Scott.

Watermark fluid is available to help the watermark show up. Some people swear by using Ronsonol lighter fluid, instead. Either way, a few drops will make the watermark appear temporarily, and then it will go away again as the fluid dries.
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