Did Germany Use Aniline Inks?

I have 150+ older German stamps. This morning I sorted them out and the first batch I put into water was this group of 5 pfennigs. There were only a few and I thought it was a good place to start. After a couple of minutes I checked on them and freaked out when one had all but disappeared. After removing all of them from the water I checked my Scott book and it made no mention of aniline or fugitive inks being used in this group. Does anyone have a Michel book with different information? I can no longer tell if it was with or without the final "e". Also, does the Montjoie France postmark add to the value of the stamp?

I do not soak any, repeat, any, 19th century stamp, from any country, even to just remove a hinge or hinge remnant. The risk of losing the color is too great.

Sorry for your loss, especially those with the nice cancellation dates.

Donald

I've soaked quite a few 19th century stamps, including German ones, and have never lost the colour before.* I think this is an astounding case of bad luck.

*The only time this happened to me was with a George V stamp from Ceylon that was printed on yellow paper. As soon as I put it in water(to view the watermark), nearly all the yellow drained away at once.

I've soaked 1000's of stamps. Most of what I buy and sell are pre 1945 issues. I've had some aniline colors before and have seen bleeding from them. That is why I separated the colors. Usually the catalogs will make a note of the possibility of aniline inks so you might look for them prior to soaking. I've never heard of this German issue having used such inks. I use the Scott book. I'm wondering if the Michel or other catalog used a note to warn of the aniline ink. I saw the one stamp which is in the scan that has a grayish tint. The stamp the ink disappeared from was the same color as the others. I'm not worried about the loss of the stamp because I have many more of the same issue. It was the disappearing trick that confounded me.

Searching through my Michel Germany Specialized, there is in fact a small note after the 1880 series (missing E, Scott 37-42). It says, roughly translated, "To protect against reuse, a portion of the printings of Michel 39-44 were printed on coated paper which was very sensitive to water." It goes on to say that stamps with damaged images due to soaking are worth essentially nothing. From this, I'd guess it was the coating that was water-sensitive, not the ink itself.

Coated papers usually have a finer surface and allow for cleaner printing - perhaps there is some way to look at the details with a high-powered magnifier and determine before soaking if you have a stamp with coated paper.

As for Montjoie, that was the official German name at the time. It was changed to Monschau during WWI.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montjoie

Ryan

I'll go back and check the paper. That is interesting that Scott forgot to mention it. That will make a note in my files on the German stamps. At least I'll keep the stamp for reference. Are the special paper stamps valued higher than the regular paper stamp?

I know the feeling, lost a batch of Netherlands Indies once.
Since then, I am wary of any stamp with that purple ink,
and leave well alone.
I think dlambert's advice is worth following,
albeit, some require soaking no matter what, curled and crinkled Austria comes to mind.

No mention of value is made in Michel, other than "little value / no value" in the case of stamps damaged during soaking.

Ryan

Thanks for looking Ryan, always appreciated. Rod2222, one day I'll grow-up to be a philatelist instead of a stamp collector. I was thinking along a completely different line of thought this morning. That is why I was so shocked. I thought I knew enough about the early German. Every day though I learn a little more and keep my notes. One day though I'll be called a philatelist. I just hope it isn't in a eulogy.

Hello 1847bill,
I use the Stanley Gibbons Germany catalogue, and according to that there were two printings of the 1880-87 stamps (without final E on pfennig). The first printing had dull colours, matt ink, thick paper and Yellowish crackled gum. The second printing (from 1885) had brighter colours, shiny fugitive ink, thinner smoother paper and smooth white gum.
There is no equivalent note for the 1875-79 issues (with E on pfennige). Hope this helps.
DavidR

Bill, one thing that concerns,
if you saw the change after just a few minutes,
are you using water at a temperature other than cold?
Impatience generally will bite you, either with removing a hinge, or soaking.

In future, perhaps try just one stamp, in cold water, perhaps a little
salt in the first soak, and set the oven timer for 5 minutes.
I would advise against soaking any stamp in warmed water.

I always use ambient water. I've heard of using salt. I'm not sure why. In the old days it may have been used to clarify the water from bacteria and minerals. I'm not sure it does much today. I need to do some research on that. DavidR, thanks for the info from SG. I have been studying the paper on the one stamp that leached the ink and the others. The others in the scan look a little washed out but they were that way before soaking. The only difference I can feel between the papers is the the one missing the ink feels slick and smoother. Similar to an oily feel. I'm not sure I could tell the difference though when on paper. I have more and will try to discern the difference some more before I plunk them in the water.

If you soak in water with salt, do you not then have to either soak again in pure water or wash to remove the salt water. I know I would not want to leave a salt deposit on my stamps by drying stamps which had been soaked in salt water.

I remember a story in a book about the rich collectors of yesteryear - possibly Ferrary. He is said to have insisted that any stamp he purchased be dipped in boiling water to prove its authenticity! I suppose his thinking was that forgers would use cheaper, soluble inks?
Maybe this was before the era of aniline inks?

I can relate to the comment by Rod222, en passant, about the curly and crinkly Austria stamps. I have several unused and do not want to soak them and lose the adhesive. They are in my "someday" stock book until I learn of a way to flatten them. Perhaps the forum knows.

Donald

one only uses a little salt, to prevent some inks from being fugitive, and is washed clean in the rinse, as one does with clean water,
one should always give a light rinse.

Donald, be wary of the Austrians with varnish bars, soaking those can be ugly.

edit, using a new keyboard layout, ugh.