Small Queen Pair Cover

I did the peroxide test and nothing changed.

The Unitrade is much better than Scott, but still very limited in it's divisions.

Your stamp looks more like a 37c (Dull Orange), the date also is more in line with this (see below).

What Unitrade calls 37c (1872) is very confusing, it leaves out a whole decade or two.

Based on my research of other authors' works on the 3c SQ, 37c could actually fit any number of printings from the late 1870's to the late 1880's. Most are in the Dull Orange, Red/Orange range of colours.
Papers vary.
Does yours have a pebbly feel when you run your finger over it?
Also, can you tell if it is horizontal or horizontal wove?
That would help some in the ID.

You would think the earliest done would be main listing and all others a variety or shade there of. Unitrade does do a decent job and although I have never read any of the other books I believe thay are an important tool if ever to study these. That said when BeeSee publishes his book I would like a slight nod or at least a signed copy- Someone has to do it!

Thanks for the information 3Dadeo.

Yes mine has a pebbly feel (and look). I will scan the back tonight. It is a vertical wove, I did the "breath" test and it curled slightly long-wise.

3Dadeo: Any idea when the Montreal perf 12 stamps began? From what I have been able to find out the first were 11.5 x 12.

Hate to interject again- I'm looking at a rose NFLD issue but it appears very brown. My thoughts immediatly went back to the queens but of course the orange inks turning brown. Would rose ink have the same issues as orange? My thought is if there is orange/ vermillion under the brown its a much harder stamp to acquire and I've never seen any extreme oxidizing on as many rose colors.

Here is a close-up of the reverse of a portion of my stamp (1200dpi):



I have since found an almost identical stamp, but the paper has a horizontal grain.

BeeSee

Based on the following: colour (Dull/Red-Orange/Red), perf 12, vertical mesh wove paper, pebbly surface...slightly yellowish paper (as it appears in your scan)

your stamp is a 37c (some authors use 37cv "v"=vertical wove)

Specifically, a copy printed in the late 1870's - early 1880's with an earliest recorded date of Mar. 1878 (making it a Montreal printing)

Definitely a 37c based on the above - a good reference copy that you may wish to label for comparison with other 3c SQ's

reference: [BNAPS Topics article (1999/No3/Jul-Aug-Sep) "Shoemaker's 3c SQ Classifications -revised"]

BeeSee

The Montreal printings were initially 11.5x12 (actually, the early Montreal's were closer to 11.6x11.85)

The perf 12x12 (sometimes 11.9x11.9) began around 1875/76 and were in use for about a decade (until 1887)

The 1887-1888 transition period (Montreal to 2nd Ottawa) saw a perf 12x12.25, more scarce 12.25x12 and finally a rare 12.25x12.25

1889 -1895 back to perf 12x12

1896-97 (end of the run) saw a return to 12x12.25

(NOTE: 12.25 could mean anywhere from 12.15 to 12.22)

The information above is based on a very good book "Canada's Postage Stamps of the Small Queen Era, 1870 - 1897" by Hillson and Nixon (available from Vincent Graves Greene Foundation) $150

nitrolures:

I do not collect provinces, but if the ink contained the same elements as the vermillion/orange (that is prone to oxidization), then there is no reason it could not discolour - turn brown.
It really depends on what was in the ink mixture.

Dadeo
Great information- Where were you last year when we had about 30 pages of just 3c issues. I have one with the over 12 perf on all sides actually both BEESEE and I came up with 12.5 on one side but it is not a 37d. Your explanation of the 87-88 transition back to ottawa and perf changes makes perfect sense.
The nfld issue is said to be a rose color but has changed to brown - I know if it were orange or vermillion from the period the inks will go almost black but have not seen this happen to any of the rose shades. I know on washington 3c rose from US they can change to some extent but have not see it this extreme. I will post pic to help.

Here is the brown nfld- sorry this is out of the sm queen realm but relative from an ink point of view.

Great information 3Dadeo, thank you! I am starting to understand the perforation varieties.

I pick this cover up off ebay for about $5. The perforation is 12.13 x 12.25 12.2 x 12.2, measured in AutoCAD and confirmed with the Unitrade Gauge. I suspect it is the 1887-1888 Montreal printing, 41a. The Dec 23/88 cancel confirms this . The stamp does look like a rose carmine.

Edit: I re-measured this stamp using a formula that rounds to the nearest 10th, (up or down) because one more decimal place really makes no difference when using a perforation gauge.

BeeSee
Yes, you are on the right track. I felt the same when things started to click for me (not really that long ago).

I did read the thread about the perforation measurements made with autocad. It was very interesting.
This is still a new area for me, but I have been struggling the same as you for over a year, and things are finally starting to make sense.

The problem I was running into was a lack of consistent information. One author says this, another says that, Unitrade is limited in what it tells you, etc.
I finally started investing in some good reference books (and it has made a world of difference.)

The biggest problem I still have is getting accurate perf measurements. That is why I was hoping that autocad had a solution.

The issue of paper shrinkage is a wrench in the mix, so sometimes all you can do is make a best guess based on all the factors.

nitrolures


I did a quick search on the 8d Nfld stamp and found that it does come in a vermillion orange shade (not just rose).
Hence.. yours is most likely a discoloured vermillion stamp.